Midlife Uncensored
Midlife Uncensored-Real Life Discussions from Over the Hillis the no-holds-barred podcast you didn’t know you needed. Hosted by Joel Poppert, aka Poppy—the friendly Sasquatch with an epic beard—and his fiery co-host, Emanuela Messineo, aka E, this show unapologetically dives into the chaos, comedy, and WTF moments of midlife. If you’re 35-55 and ready to embrace the rollercoaster of aging, this podcast is your new home base.
Poppy and E tackle everything from modern dating disasters in the hilarious sub-series The Love Laugh Lounge (the “festivus” of dating) to real-life shit like divorce, mental breakdowns, balding, sagging tits, and figuring out how to parent while still figuring yourself out and maybe dealing with an unhinged ex. With a blend of interview episodes and no-expert-needed banter (except when we bring on experts), these two cut through the BS and get real about midlife—no filters, no sugarcoating, just pure, unfiltered truth with a heavy dose of humor. Expect raw, relatable stories, unfiltered guidance, tough love, easy happiness, and a few episodes where the comedy comes from alcohol infused banter, because who give a fuck, right?
Whether you’re dealing with the joys of aging, trying to keep your sanity while raising kids, or attempting to find love in a sea of idiots, Midlife Uncensored has your back. Expect a few F-bombs, some belly laughs, and a whole lot of honesty as Poppy and E rip the band-aid off midlife and give you permission to thrive in this beautifully messy chapter. It's not just about surviving midlife—it's about unfucking it and owning it! This is your community; we are in it together!
Midlife Uncensored
Love, Trauma, and Ghosting: Real Talk on Modern Romance in the Love Laugh Lounge ft. Uche
Welcome back to The Love Laugh Lounge, where Poppy and E are joined by special guest Uche for a candid, laughter-filled, and sometimes sobering dive into the ups and downs of midlife dating. In this episode, they discuss everything from red flags on dating apps to real-life ghosting nightmares, unpacking how these experiences can shape—and sometimes sabotage—our future relationships.
Uche opens up about the role of past relationship trauma, sharing how old wounds can affect our reactions, expectations, and communication in new relationships. Together, the trio dives into the complexities of dating with kids, the art of gift-giving without expectations, and why honest communication is the ultimate relationship foundation. There’s also plenty of humor, including a hilariously petty story of taking back a compliment that was regretfully issued to a woman carrying too many red flags at the grocery store. It’s a no-holds-barred discussion on dating that’s relatable, raw, and real.
How to Engage with Us
- DM us on Instagram midlifeuncensored
- Follow Joel on IG jpoppert
- Follow Emanuela on IG emanuela5683 or accountability_with_e
Thanks for joining the Owning Alone community, I certainly appreciate you!
All right, all right, all right. Welcome to another episode of Midlife Uncensored Special edition the Love Laugh Lounge. Welcome to the lounge, the festivus of dating, the place where we get to air our dating grievances, our relationship grievances, talk about dating in general, give our biased advice, with no data to back up any of our opinions whatsoever. Today we have a special guest Uche, I don't know. Courtier to my left is my worldly co-host, emanuela, also known as E, also known as the Sausage Queen.
Speaker 2:I didn't see that.
Speaker 1:She actually has an apron. Uche, good looking man, 45, single, denver, colorado, came, big ass balls, to come on the lounge.
Speaker 3:Technically what Reunion?
Speaker 1:Reunion Reunion. I live in Denver.
Speaker 3:Oh, I was like reunion of what?
Speaker 2:Of the three of us. Where do you live? Reunion.
Speaker 1:Where's reunion?
Speaker 2:Like 104th and Tower.
Speaker 1:It's an actual town, yeah.
Speaker 3:Like by Commerce City.
Speaker 2:Right, but you don't like to associate with that.
Speaker 3:Yeah okay, but it's over in that neck of the woods.
Speaker 1:Correct. I just want to point out there aren't murders happening?
Speaker 2:To all our there might have been a couple.
Speaker 3:In reunion.
Speaker 2:I'm already having a good time. It wasn't Commerce City, it wasn't in reunion.
Speaker 3:Right, that's what I mean. Like you don't have murders, no we don't Right.
Speaker 2:I live a thousand yards from a police precinct, so I'm pretty good.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:That's still a long way.
Speaker 3:We're already ADD here today.
Speaker 1:I'm already having a good time, so this is officially our first three-way.
Speaker 2:Oh boy, I'm glad you didn't call it a threesome, threesome.
Speaker 1:Well, I mean, it's still. It's only eight o'clock. We've only had how many glasses of wine. I'm on my second.
Speaker 3:Oh boy.
Speaker 1:I don't play swords.
Speaker 3:That's oh boy, I don't play I don't play swords, that's right um you guys? I don't even know what to say.
Speaker 1:You don't have to say just take a sip of wine, you're definitely outnumbered, great there's a lot of things running through my mind.
Speaker 3:Oh god, this is well, please share.
Speaker 1:That's what this podcast is for. Nope, did you just envision?
Speaker 2:nope sort of uce poppy sandwich.
Speaker 1:What's going on over there?
Speaker 2:there's, there's, there's a it's hot in here.
Speaker 3:Remember, guys, that you we.
Speaker 1:We don't forget to subscribe. Follow us on the gram or you can find us at midlife uncensored. Yeah, so how's everybody doing? Welcome to the lounge. It's been a while since we've done one of these, so thank you for being brave.
Speaker 2:I've never been to the lounge.
Speaker 1:So it's, it's uh, we need to do it more often and I think now the progression used to be me just having a girl on, when it was just me as the host and just asking the girl. Girls have a lot of fun dating stories. I mean, I don't think they were fun for them but they're.
Speaker 3:I think girls definitely get the shorter end of the stick.
Speaker 1:Sometimes, when it comes to dating, literally they get us back, I think in relationships sometimes. But I'm glad somebody got that. Yeah, we do get paid back eventually. It's all even out. There is definitely an equal equation there.
Speaker 2:I have been dropping little funny things all night and neither one of these two have gotten it. That was the first time somebody got what I said.
Speaker 3:I got one earlier, one other one, yeah, yeah, it's okay.
Speaker 2:Joel's just missing the whole boat.
Speaker 3:Way just over his head.
Speaker 1:It must be that, and he's tall.
Speaker 3:I know it's like way.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean you'd be surprised. Even if I was a giraffe.
Speaker 2:I'd still miss half the shit that gets thrown at me, I believe that you don't have to convince me.
Speaker 1:Well, I think it's because I'm getting older. I don't really sleep much anymore, as much as I want to. What does that have to do? Yeah, just walking zombie.
Speaker 2:First of all, I'm older than you. Secondarily, Like 30 days. Still it's irrelevant. I probably sleep less. Like, if you look at my sleep number, I think I'm like an average of four hours and 20 minutes a night.
Speaker 3:Do you have a sleep number mattress though I do and does it track your?
Speaker 1:sleep. Yeah, I don't think I can get one of those. It'll be depressing.
Speaker 3:Is that why it's called a sleep number?
Speaker 2:no sleep number is because you get to pick what.
Speaker 3:It's zero to 100, so with firmness I feel like I'm looking at you, like you're just blowing my mind right now so if it's at 100 can you shoot a bullet at it and talk.
Speaker 2:I mean it's an air mattress? So probably not, but it's. It's like hard as a floor wow that was one of the few things that I took in my divorce. I was like I'm taking my bed good for you, are they?
Speaker 3:I got this one of the ones that you can adjust it though yeah, so mine is actually has dynamic air okay, so as if I shift in bed it'll keep my number, because in order what? If you have, like somebody else sleeping with you, you have your own number. You have your own, yeah right, yeah, that's what I've heard they make one for three people.
Speaker 2:I mean not like mine, because mine's literally two separate mattresses ah so I have two separate pumps for the air, for the dynamic air. They both adjust separately, like if I wake up at four o'clock in the morning and I want does it feel like an air mattress? No, it feels like a regular old mattress. The only difference is when you lay down like if your booty is the heaviest part of your body, then it'll push more air up to your booty and your shoulders, Like you feel it adjust as you lay down?
Speaker 1:Is there a sex setting where you can turn it on sex and then it just becomes more?
Speaker 2:uh, don't know I mean it water betty, it can get pretty high. So for tall, people?
Speaker 3:oh, because the back, you can sit up in it, the back, the feet go up, the feet will go oh, you can oh yeah, oh yeah slap it to a slim gym, oh yeah who needs a sex swing when you have a sleep number?
Speaker 2:that's a whole different oh what's that random eye hook for there? Yeah for flower pot mom plants you what I can make christian gray blush oh boy oh, what is?
Speaker 3:christian gray this is the third time tonight.
Speaker 1:So big draft, remember draft, yeah, yeah.
Speaker 2:Have you seen Fifty Shades of Grey no.
Speaker 3:Start there. Have you heard of it?
Speaker 1:I've heard of it.
Speaker 3:I watched the secretary.
Speaker 2:Watch those three movies, which one Fifty?
Speaker 1:Shades of Grey.
Speaker 2:There's three of them, there's three of them and then you guys can discuss on your next podcast is who as to who christian is?
Speaker 1:yeah, we should do a movie download will you come back, I might okay, we'll see how this goes.
Speaker 3:Yeah, the first time this is super fun don't wait, but what about, like I mean, take so much pressure on me.
Speaker 1:I'm only talking half the time now actually a third.
Speaker 2:I mean, if you really want to trust me, I'll be about 50 when it's her.
Speaker 1:and I'm sorry I can, I try so hard. I'm just like I got to say something.
Speaker 3:He told me to start interrupting him more and I'm like it just sounds like I'm an asshole.
Speaker 1:But I am the asshole.
Speaker 3:But I sound like the asshole, because I'm trying to interrupt you then, which you gave me permission to do, and you still don't stop. But I don't mind it.
Speaker 2:You're okay with it.
Speaker 1:I'm actually a lot better when we do it during the afternoon, when we're not drinking.
Speaker 2:Then I'm like monotone, you guys have not drank twice, it's twice.
Speaker 1:Nobody has a problem.
Speaker 3:Full disclosure. Usually it's like a high noon. I mean I gave up wine, but Did you, did you?
Speaker 1:You're drinking wine right now. You have the bottle next to you I know there's pictures back on as she's like full transparency.
Speaker 3:I gave up wine I know, yeah, I mean, I know she's not even drinking out of a glass, you guys it's got a big there's like a thing called a wine straw in the bottle. Yep, that's, that's right. That's me. This is me now.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's incorrect.
Speaker 1:So Uche tell us about yourself.
Speaker 2:45. I play with computers all day. Traditionally, I'm in front of customers dealing with the technical side of our business, so I'm a solutions architect. I used to be called a solutions engineer with a technical side of our business, so I'm a solutions architect. I used to be called a solutions engineer with a software as a service company. And so I literally work from home and I love to travel, and I'm still trying to figure out why they want me on the show, but I'm sorry.
Speaker 3:Because you're a very interesting person, we don't call ourselves that You're our favorite guest.
Speaker 1:So Because you're a very interesting person.
Speaker 3:We don't call them shows anymore. You're our favorite guest so far. You're a very interesting person. I've had guests before You're definitely my favorite. Yeah, he's had plenty of guests.
Speaker 2:So yeah, so I love to travel. The reason I said I don't know why they invited me on here.
Speaker 1:No, you know, I say that every week, and then I'm like we're going to get you back in.
Speaker 3:I'm not on any app.
Speaker 2:That's okay. I'm not. I go out. You should go to Two Birds.
Speaker 1:Fit with us, I know.
Speaker 3:That's what I was going to say earlier.
Speaker 1:Okay, but let's Okay, let's break into this.
Speaker 3:But I was interrupting a serious conversation.
Speaker 2:Okay, let me play therapist. Let me put I don't need another one, no, I just. You know, I got divorced in 2020. I was married for 15 years and when I first got divorced, I was just anti, Like I wasn't looking for anything serious, Went out a couple times but nothing really came from it. And probably 2022, I met a gal who was recently out of a long-term relationship. She said she wasn't married, but I don't believe her Because she had like a tan line on her.
Speaker 3:Ah, dead giveaway. Was she married while she was dating you?
Speaker 2:I don't think she was married while she was dating me, but I think she was married.
Speaker 3:A lot sooner or a lot more recently than okay.
Speaker 2:Yeah, because I actually got a text that said I know what you're doing and I was like who is this? I didn't respond to it because you get spam messages.
Speaker 3:Oh my gosh Like hi.
Speaker 2:Correct and so I ignored it. But then I got a text like two days later to me and her oh and all it said was I know about the two of you yeah, that's not so naturally being the person that I am, I was like, uh, hey, could we talk?
Speaker 2:you think we could have a conversation real quick. I said, are you in a relationship? She did. I knew she had kids, right, and I was she's like no, but he was over picking up the boys, looked at my phone, saw a message from you and then sent us both a message. I was like actually he sent a message to me a couple days ago, but anyway, so so yeah, okay, we're gonna come back to this go ahead.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no, but well because we were talking earlier about.
Speaker 3:Sorry, I'm not gonna go ahead so earlier we were talking about like the timing of like people dating. I've not been married so this isn't applicable to me necessarily, but like the timing of people who are dating post-divorce like can deter people and I know from my side of things it's because people aren't always like honest right, so it's like they might actually still be in that relationship and they try to say like have like a story around it. So I think that that's interesting. I've had something similar happen to me in the past.
Speaker 3:Yeah, a few times where it was like what the seriously? Like, it's really sad.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and I mean I was. I never pretended to want a girlfriend at the time.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Like I was, I've always been an open book in relationships, friendships or like romantic relationships. I would rather be so honest to hurt your feelings than not.
Speaker 3:Sure.
Speaker 2:Like that's just. I think as a society we get away from that. Like I can't tell you how many times in relationships I've had, even in my marriage, where I heard these words I didn't know how you'd react, so I didn't want't tell you how many times in relationships I've had, even in my marriage, where I heard these words I didn't know how you'd react, so I didn't want to tell you that's a crock of shit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it breaks away at the foundation or doesn't build it, right you want?
Speaker 2:to tell me because you knew you shouldn't be doing whatever it is.
Speaker 3:So how did you respond in that moment? Like what do you want to talk about?
Speaker 2:it like how did that like what happened after those, like messages and obviously you said like so I invited her over and she's like we're not together and I was like, just so you know, because for me in that moment I wasn't her boyfriend, she was, was somebody I was dating I didn't have. I mean, she was super easy to talk to, she was very complimentary, I felt like she could be a friend, right, but it wasn't. There was no, like my heart wasn't involved at all, and I was very clear about that. And so it was one of those things that I looked at and I was like I can tell her that if she's married, or if she is, if she has a current boyfriend, that I'm not, that's not my shtick, right, you do you current boyfriend, that I'm not, that's not my shtick, right, you do you. But at the same time, there were no feelings to the degree that I felt like I needed to address it outside of. Does he know where I live? Like, am I going to get somebody knocking at my door?
Speaker 2:yeah because sitting here, I have a gun on me. Like you're not going to come to my house and act a fool, because I'll Yep.
Speaker 1:Yep, shoot your kneecaps up. Pinky toe, pinky toe. That's really nice of you actually.
Speaker 2:Very polite.
Speaker 1:That's actually Very polite, I don't know.
Speaker 2:It's another line, it's another movie.
Speaker 1:There goes a giraffe.
Speaker 3:Giraffe.
Speaker 1:So so what I mean? Is that the only time that something like that has happened?
Speaker 2:yeah, and you dated this girl.
Speaker 3:For how long we didn't? I mean, you were, you were. How long were you hung out?
Speaker 2:for probably eight months or so yeah, it's a long time. A couple times a month we'd hang out. She had kids. She had twin boys, so that's a whole full-time job, um, who were born severely premature, like there were a lot of things. So it wasn't like every day we, or once a week we, saw each other.
Speaker 3:Yeah, she had her hands full with very much and she worked full-time. Yeah, so would you. Are you open to dating people with kids?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't have. I've always wanted kids.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:The difficulty, in my opinion, with dating someone with kids. A couple of things. One I personally don't want to meet your kids until, like we are serious. Like we are serious Excuse me, I have 11 nieces and nephews. Right, I've seen what meeting someone's partner too early does. Sure, kids love people like you. They just love whoever your mom or dad loves. Yeah, they want to be there for them, right? So introducing kids early on, I think, is a huge mistake, because you're showing, you're building childhood traumas in these kids, right, because they get excited that uche's coming over, yeah, and all of a sudden uche's no longer coming over. They get excited that he's coming over and he's no longer. So it's disappointment after disappointment after disappointment. She I don't think she would have had a problem introducing her kids to me. I just didn't want to meet them.
Speaker 3:So I don't have. Have you met anybody's kids that you've dated Like? Is that because of?
Speaker 2:One, one person. I met their kids, but their kids didn't know.
Speaker 3:That you were dating. We were dating, okay, and to this day.
Speaker 2:if I see their kids, they'll run up and give me a hug. But it's not like I was around, right? Okay, it's just that.
Speaker 1:I think it also matters on age too, right, the age of the kids. I dated a girl before I got married that was older than me, probably 10, 11 years older, and her kid was like 14. She had him early and he wasn't even interested, right? So for the most part I mean, we didn't bond. I'm sure he doesn't think about me anymore. I think the only thing I ever did for him was give him the green light to go, toilet paper or something. One night he kind of looked at me and I was like yeah.
Speaker 2:I think that's a great move.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just kind of like winked at him. The mom also did, because she was like, yeah, they're getting out of the house, let's get down. And that was the only time I ever dated a girl that introduced me to her kid, and it was super early. I also kid and it was super early. I also met her ex-husband because I'd just go over and we would drop the kid off. I don't know every other girl now that I've dated post-divorce is like I don't want you to meet my kid and I'm like until we're serious, like you said, and I'm like I don't really want to either.
Speaker 2:I think it's particularly younger kids yeah um but I also think we have a difference of opinion when it comes to kids. So my thought process around kids is this let's say you and I got married at 26, 27. And then we had kids. You will always be.
Speaker 3:By the way he's looking at Joel. He's good looking.
Speaker 2:I don't know if the beard really does it for me.
Speaker 2:Beard is bigger and I even have a difference of opinion with some of my close friends about this. We started first. You will always be my number one priority, then the kids, right. I have friends who believe that the kids didn't have a choice in the matter, so the kids come first, right. However, that changes If I meet you and you have kids. They have to be your number one priority and at some point in time, because I love you as much as I do, I need to make them that same priority, right I?
Speaker 2:There comes a point in time in a relationship where that transforms. But it's not, it's not quick at all, no, it's years down the road where, okay, susie has a soccer game. I'd really like for you to come with me to Susie's soccer game, but at the same time, I'm not willing to not go to Susie's soccer game because we have dinner plans. Right, and I know I differ from a lot of my friends on this because a lot of my friends are of the camp that the kids come first in every situation. When it's they're, not my children, that makes sense. If you and I have children together, I disagree Because in order to give them a healthy show of what love is, you and I have to be in lockstep and how do you think that?
Speaker 3:Because I have some opinions around this too, and you and I have talked about this, but it's been a while since we've had this conversation and my idea around this has changed a bit. You and I've talked about this, but it's been a while since we've had this conversation and my idea around this has changed a bit. It's evolved. So what would you so? Okay, so you're saying, if you have kids with someone, you want to show them what a healthy relationship looks like, and so you have to prioritize the relationship. Is that what I heard you say?
Speaker 1:Yes, you always want to show the kids what a healthy relationship looks like so regardless of whether they're sort of the mindset of like you can't be a good partner to. You can't be a good partner unless you're have a good. We talk about this all the time.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Unless you have a good relationship with yourself. The relationship with yourself needs to be a good partner. Unless you're have a good we talk about this all the time yeah, unless you have a good relationship with yourself, the relationship with yourself needs to be a priority. It's not a selfish thing, it's. If you're not taking care of yourself, then how can you be, how can you give yourself and be a good partner to your part, your partner, right? So I think what you're saying is it extends to the children is, if you and your partner aren't a good unit and you're not prioritizing your relationship, you're not being the best like role models or parent to your kids.
Speaker 1:So I always felt that way too, if I was. When we tried to my wife and I had kids, we used to talk about this. I'm like we have to prioritize our relationship. I think the reality is it's very fucking difficult, but I'll tell you something that stuck with me.
Speaker 2:My father doctor. I was probably 13, maybe 14. And I had friends whose parents were getting divorced. As a kid that young inevitably, you believe your parents are next I came home from school one day and I sat down with my dad and I said are you and mom getting divorced? As a scared child. And my dad was shocked, absolutely shocked, like did your mom tell you something?
Speaker 3:Do you know something I don't know, right.
Speaker 2:And he said why do you ask? And I told him I started naming off all my friends whose parents were getting divorced, and he said no, do you ask? And I told him I started naming off all my friends whose parents were getting divorced, and he said no, we're not Outside of their commitment to one another. My dad said these words and I've never forgotten them. In every relationship I'm in which burns me, inevitably, I act in this fashion. He said your mom's needs are my top priority. My needs are your mom's top priority. Both of us are being taken care of and neither one of us is being selfish, which is contradictory so you grew up with a good relationship.
Speaker 2:Solid, like my parents have been married 55 years and I talked to him every Wednesday and every Sunday and they are still madly in love with each other, like it's what I. It's one of the reasons I'm a hopeless romantic Right, but with that, um, I like the word hopeful.
Speaker 1:It should be a hopeful romantic. I'm hopeless oh you're hopeful, we're going to Uche. Good looking man over there, you're a catch, come on.
Speaker 3:Be hopeful.
Speaker 2:Let me.
Speaker 3:You would clean up at these two bird fit.
Speaker 1:There's always way more women. Yeah, we're going, yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm going to finish you two with your two birds. One stone, whatever. This thing is Two birds, one stone.
Speaker 1:I don't know what you guys were saying. I just heard two birds, which means one stone comes immediately.
Speaker 2:Two birds fit, oh, whatever. So I think it's so contradictory to what today is yeah because today is all about self yeah and that's the problem with dating to prioritize yourself, prioritize yeah and don't get me wrong, you have to be healthy right you're talking to somebody who was finally convinced to do therapy by a good friend of mine.
Speaker 2:I fought therapy for years. I'm a proud Nigerian man Proud Nigerian man. We don't need therapy. Rub some dirt on it and keep it moving, deal with it. It's one of the reasons I went numb in my marriage. That's just how we dealt with it. A dear friend of mine was strong enough to this is what we do, I appreciate it.
Speaker 3:Welcome to the jungle, right, don't mind me.
Speaker 1:But, I think, in today's society.
Speaker 2:Not yet. But at the same time, we do need to take care of ourselves.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:However, if I'm in a committed relationship, I will never put myself before you. I won't.
Speaker 3:I mean, that is definitely a different mindset than I think a lot of people have.
Speaker 1:There's listeners getting wet right now listening to that.
Speaker 3:But you, yeah, absolutely. I mean I say this all the time when Joel and I are talking and it's not a fit for everybody. Other people don't agree, but there's also so many other things that have to line up. That is one of the qualities that makes you very unique, but you are one of the most like, genuine, loyal, thoughtful, caring people that I've ever met, and you absolutely do. I love that. I mean you have awareness around that and that's wonderful. I hope that you. That probably scares some people away A lot, yeah, I mean because here's the deal Like shut the fuck up.
Speaker 1:But it's scaring all the wrong people away, right, is that right? There's like inside joke here. Giraffe, giraffe Just nickname me the giraffe Giraffe. Are the right people wrong?
Speaker 2:people Wrong time, wrong time.
Speaker 1:Well time. Well, yeah, it's all about people in the wrong 100?
Speaker 2:am I allowed to share this? Yeah?
Speaker 3:okay, because we went out a few times and he might have scared me away you scared away a little bit so tell the story oh, I do, I do tell.
Speaker 2:Yeah, story time I'm turning my microphone off.
Speaker 1:Try not to be cryptic. This giraffe can't catch anything.
Speaker 2:We met on a party bus on the way to an avalanche game in Colorado Springs.
Speaker 3:PS. We did not. We met before that.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but I consider that our like she brought Pink Whitney who's Pink Whitney?
Speaker 2:It's a drink that you should not drink and pudding shots and pudding shots. We had a party bus on the way down, right. It was an awesome night. At the end of the night I said I'd like to take you out sometime. She said, okay, we went out through our conversation, she was about to turn. Am I allowed to say do people know your age? Yeah, they know her age. Okay, um, she was about to turn. She was about to turn. She was about to turn.
Speaker 3:Turn your mic back on you can't I'm trying to not interrupt him, I'm actually even sitting on my hands so she was about to turn 40.
Speaker 2:And one thing to know about E is she thinks about everybody but herself.
Speaker 1:I met her through. You know, we did an episode about people pleasing.
Speaker 2:It's not even a people pleasing. I think she genuinely cares about people. People pleasers just don't want you to be mad at them.
Speaker 1:This is true. I would agree with you.
Speaker 2:There's a whole ass difference there. But so I met her through two friends of mine and it was their first pregnancy and she did so much for them. While we were out I said what are you doing for your birthday? Nobody was doing shit for her birthday and I thought that is terrible.
Speaker 2:And my way of showing care for someone is gift giving. I love to give gifts. It brings a whole thing Usually. Usually it gives a whole vibe and she's laughing because she understands what's coming. So she's turning 40, which is a big number. So I thought I'm going to get her something, because she's cared for two people I care for dearly Through their first pregnancy, always there for them, bringing them food, like helping in every fashion available.
Speaker 2:So I got her a spa day. She was out with her neighbor at the time. Some lady that lived in the same complex or whatever with her. I was like I'm going to leave your gift under a plant or whatever was at her front door and she's like okay, so I do that. I go back home.
Speaker 2:It was the next day day I get a text what do you want? I was like, excuse me. She's like what do you want? I'm like I'm super confused because in my mind I haven't asked her for anything. So finally, through the cryptic what do you want? I said what do you mean?
Speaker 2:She said nobody does this unless they want something. I said I don't want anything from you. It's called a gift. Take care of yourself, spend a day taking care of yourself. I don't want it yourself, spend a day taking care of yourself. I don't want it. And I said to her I don't give, fuck what you do with it. You can throw it away for all I care. Yes, I don't give you. I don't give gifts to get anything. I don't even give gifts for thank yous. I don't even expect a thank you from you. All I'm doing is trying to make your day a little bit better and if I fall for you, the whole the gift giving becomes this whole thing. That sometimes gets irritating and I get that, but it's a way that I show love to people, right it's?
Speaker 1:your love language. So so I was like I wasn't to like a Russian steam bath or something, was it no?
Speaker 2:I think it was a nice place.
Speaker 3:It was to the place I had a membership to.
Speaker 2:And so I told her, I said gift it to one of your friends. I don't care and correct me if I came off a different way. I really didn't care.
Speaker 3:No, you did not, I didn't. You were like I am not taking it back. Yeah, tear it up.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you were like Tear it up and throw it away, don't care. So that's what the it wasn't over your head, you didn't know? There's no movie that talked about that, did you go?
Speaker 3:To the spa day. Yeah, eventually I to the spa day.
Speaker 2:Yeah, eventually, I never asked that question.
Speaker 1:No, I know you didn't, I just assumed she tore it up and threw it away. No, I did eventually. You go on another date after that. Did she what? You became friends after that.
Speaker 3:It was like 18 months I was gonna say it was a long time after.
Speaker 1:Yeah so let's unpack that so where does that trauma come? From Shitty boyfriends.
Speaker 3:Shitty boyfriends dating dinner for sex.
Speaker 2:Yeah, hold on, let me see if I get this right. It probably comes from dealing with men who do things to receive things, not genuinely. I'll take you to dinner. You're going to give me something at the end of the night, right? It's because more so in today's society you have men who do things from a level of expectation I'll spend money on you, but at the end of that and if you don't meet my expectations, then I get angry or I lash out and say I took you to dinner, I can't come up. I took you to dinner, you won't give me a kiss, right? Whatever that level is that they had in their mind. It's from setting expectations with what you're doing for someone, and I've always been raised that if you choose to do something for someone, you're doing it for someone, you're not doing it for the for some in return for some in return expectation.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so it's interesting.
Speaker 3:I, yeah, and I really genuinely appreciate that about you, I think for me I'm like it's a little hot in here.
Speaker 2:You're also a giver.
Speaker 3:Well, I feel like I'm very much like you in that way, so it's weird that I would have that reaction. But you just asked why and it took me a second. But it's actually not from other men or experiences in that way, and it's everything to do with the fact that I grew up with a mom that would hold everything over my head. So anything she did that was nice came with some string attached, and I remember at some point in my teenage years like having that realization and understanding that, and that's why I have the work ethic I do and why I started working, babysitting everybody I could at like age 11, and cutting the you know whatever, cutting the grass or just doing whatever to make a dollar, so that I could slowly start gaining my own independence and not having to rely on her for anything. And it was literally like a. It was a plan I had from, I want to say, the time I was like 13. Are you saying more or less, oh, okay, and that was it. Because it was like there was always a control factor that came with something that was given, and now that's it. So that's why I'm very independent.
Speaker 3:I don't like to take anything from anybody. If I do get something, I have to feel like I repay it in some way, and if I don't, then you are somebody that I'm very comfortable with, that I have a very long standing relationship with and I feel like I've done enough that I don't have to like that. That's okay to go by a little bit like there's a it takes a very long time for me to get to that like comfort zone. Like Sasha brought me a case of water bottles and a case of paper towels for the party this weekend because she called me and she was at Sam's Club and she's like what do you need? And I was like I need these two things.
Speaker 3:And today I was like I need to Venmo her $50. And then I was like, uh, maybe it's okay, maybe I can just like let this slide. And it's not. It's like that doesn't even sit well with me, but yet I was babysitting her kids last night for, like her and I have this give and take all the time. But yet we both come from the same type of like upbringing where we've had to be very independent. We couldn't rely on other people, had to be very independent, we couldn't rely on other people. And so when you do, or when there is like that, like uh, I don't know when you feel like I don't know, I don't want to speak for her, but like it's it, just it's. You can tell I'm like uncomfortable she's sweating.
Speaker 3:I'm like I am she's wearing a wool sweater though I'm Like, my feet are sweating right now.
Speaker 1:Way to go. Ej, I appreciate the. I think the candor is. It's nice because I think you just sort of what's that I was going to say?
Speaker 2:that's the first time. I mean. I knew that about E, but when we had the discussion about this, she said these words to me and unfortunately I have this stupid brain that remembers way too much, and my ex-wife hated it.
Speaker 1:You're the opposite of me. I forget everything that comes or goes in one ear or the other.
Speaker 2:She said this I've never dated somebody who does something without an expectation. That's why I went to that. Well, that's, I mean the maybe, I yeah, I don't know I guess I don't know if you're just feeding me full of shit to get me to I think it was more my mind, I think that's what I assumed.
Speaker 3:But if I like with the work that I've done in my life and like therapy I think that was me putting that I don't know that they actually did that fair I think that was me putting that. I don't know that they actually did that. I think it was me applying my experience with my mom and assuming that right Because there's the stories we tell ourselves, and it was me creating that again, just like I did with you, really right.
Speaker 2:I mean it's actually funny because we were actually talking earlier about last year's halloween guest yes right, I'm not gonna say any names no names but in the short time I dated her I learned some things about her.
Speaker 2:She's always cold. If it's winter, she likes wine whiskey. If it's winter she likes wine whiskey. If it's summer she likes wine. Prisoner makes a special cast every year of wine that is put in whiskey barrels. I scoured finding somebody who had a Prisoner membership where they offered that I bought her this bottle of wine. Are you familiar with Minky couture?
Speaker 2:no it's the softest blanket in the world, like a. I have a travel blanket that's a minky couture. That's like a 180 blanket. They're amazing blankets. It's a company out of utah. That's why I know about them, because okay but she's always cold and those are her two drinks whiskey and wine. What better than to get a yeah, bottle absolutely wine that was done.
Speaker 2:so I got that for her for christmas. I didn't give her the bottle, by the way, because things had started to already deteriorate. Her cadence changed and I'm very in tune with somebody I'm dating, too in tune. I hate it. I actually it's something that I wish I didn't realize, right? And then when I sent her a message that said, hey, it looks like you've done a 180. If so, just let me know. Right, because there's no successful relationship friendship or partnership, romantic or any other that doesn't survive with not being honest with each other. Right? My thing has always been let's be honest with each other, even if it hurts your feelings, because we can work through that.
Speaker 3:And it's also about noticing if something's off, like being able to communicate and ask the other person to say like, is something wrong? So, not not everybody is like some. It's maybe a passive, passive, aggressive way to communicate that you're upset, or maybe they're just working through it, but it's nice to have somebody notice if anything is off right in that dialogue.
Speaker 2:Claire is kind, yeah, claire is kind, yeah, I mean because and her reasonings oh, I have the kids and they've been on my phone for two days Like you've had your kids. You didn't just have your kids, there's two of them, right, so you didn't just barely have your children. I'm not a fool. These don't treat me like a fool ever. What that was? Something changed which, to this day, I don't know what changed, but something changed in our relationship because, like I was telling you guys earlier, even on vacation, I was getting pictures of her and her family. I was getting 12, 15 messages a day, and then you don't respond to me for 48 hours. Something's changed.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Yeah, what that is, I don't know Right. But and I think about the, I don't know where I was going with that, but I think about the aspect of the gift giving and I had a friend ask me because that ending hurt.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And through talking, through therapy, I've realized some of the things from an abandonment perspective. Right, it wouldn't have hurt as bad if she would have just said you know what, this isn't for me For X, y and Z. I would have been like, okay. I may have thought to been like, well, I can work on X and Y. I don't know if I can deal with Z, but I can work on X and Y. I may have thought because I had feelings for her. But at the same time, oh, communication, that's where it started With communication, part of the issue with today's culture, in the sense that you literally just sit on an app, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, like, hey, how you doing.
Speaker 2:You want to go get dinner sometime Right Back in my day. You want to go get dinner sometime right back in my day. You had to approach women. You had to have something to catch their attention, like that, or they'd look at you, roll their eyes and walk away. Right in today's world you can't even do that because when I moved into my house, which was in june of probably October, I was at the grocery store and this girl walked by me and I was like she is stunning and my old brain kicked in and I walked up to her and I was like I don't really want anything from you. I just got to tell you you are stunning. She rolled her eyes and sighed and said to me these words, which was the first time I'd ever heard this. That's street harassment.
Speaker 3:What.
Speaker 2:I was like we're not on the street lady, we're in a King Soopers.
Speaker 1:I want to argue, though that's not normal, because you hear a lot from women now, at least when I talk to women like they're desperate for men to do that exact thing I got, I think, you got.
Speaker 3:This is also 2021, so you're talking oh yeah post-covid. Yeah, like I'm wondering if there's some she didn't have a mask on. I didn't have a mask on no, I'm just saying like the time was a smidge different in that moment. I don't think, I still don't think there's an excuse for it.
Speaker 1:I think that nine, I think that eight out of, let's say eight out of ten women, single women these days, particularly our age, would be flattered so can I?
Speaker 2:can I tell you how petty I was? I didn't know what street harassment was oh, you're a little bit draft too I was a draft that day so I I googled it when I right there right there, hang on a second in front of her hold on hold on please, she walked away, ma'am.
Speaker 2:Call her ma'am, that'd have been the best we call women ma'am, and I know I'm no, I'm just go ahead she walked away and I was like street harassment and it showed some video of some girl walking down the streets of New York City getting cackled, Cackled yeah. And I was like she thinks that's what I did. I walked up every single aisle till I found her and I said I retract my statement. You're not stunning. And I walked. That's how petty I am. I was like I'm gonna find her Good for you.
Speaker 3:Okay, so you talked about not wanting to, so like you've talked about wanting to approach people more like in real life but, you have done? You have done some online dating. Do you want to talk about your experience?
Speaker 2:with that awful okay, can we?
Speaker 3:I mean because, like do you got, you have? Do you have any good stories you can share with us? I need to pour some more wine so ps.
Speaker 1:Sorry if you hear the pouring I which app to do?
Speaker 2:is first of all, I did bumble. I there were a couple of. There were a few like three of them. I think at one point in time that I was whatever was giving me the free because I'm not paying to date. You Just throwing a net.
Speaker 3:Hinge Bumble.
Speaker 2:Hinge was one, Bumble was another one Field. I started on Field because a friend of mine was like you should try Field, and I looked at Field and I was like yeah, you and your kinky, whatever, yeah, but wait a minute. Half of them look like my left toe. So, and that left toe has been. I played soccer most of my life.
Speaker 3:So but at first, it was the right one. Worse or better?
Speaker 2:yeah, so at first it was actually very discouraging extremely discouraging okay, extremely discouraging because I would I liked whatever the maximum was, every single day I'd go through like I was committed to it yep and I, and nobody ever responded for like the first 45 days I was like am I ugly? Have I reached the ugly stage in life? I kid you not.
Speaker 3:Were you sending them like? Were you just liking, or were you sending a message? Did you not lie about your?
Speaker 1:height. Come on, dude.
Speaker 2:You got to add at least three inches. I don't need to lie about my height I'm 6'3".
Speaker 1:Well, I'm 6'4" and I'm 6'5 on the abs.
Speaker 3:Yeah, but still, 6'3 will get you everywhere you need to go. Yeah, 6'3 is great. 6'1 will get you everywhere you need to go.
Speaker 2:If I have to start with a lie, this relationship probably is not going anywhere.
Speaker 3:No, you don't want to do that. Yeah, no, and we talked about the fact that I'm actually 6'4 and a half.
Speaker 1:I just round up there you go.
Speaker 2:You hear that, ladies, he's rounding up Seven on skis. I mean, I'm 6'6 on skates, so there's that, there you go.
Speaker 1:I'm 12 on a ladder.
Speaker 3:Not the BDFL no.
Speaker 2:So it was actually in the beginning was very discouraging. And then I have a dear friend and a mentor that I meet with once a month and her and I have lunch or dinner. I mean it's like 4.30. So Lina, lina, and I was showing her and she's like your verbiage is stupid. So we worked on my verbiage, on the apps, and then I started to get a. I got a couple people who liked me back and then I started to get a. I got a couple people who liked me back and we had I went on one date and one of the things was because I love to travel, right, and so one of the early parts of the conversation was where's your next trip? And it was leading into my Portugal and Spain trip.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:And I was like I'm going to Portugal and Spain and it was still a few months out and she literally looked at me and said you're gonna book my ticket. I laughed. I thought we were joking like I thought we were telling funnies yeah and she did not and I was like do you know how intimate travel is?
Speaker 2:like you need to be at a certain place with somebody to be able to travel with them. I gotta be able to shit in front of you right to start um, for just spending that much time with somebody, I mean that was two and a half weeks, yeah, of being together all the time. This is our first date yeah, so. So that's a story. Um, I do.
Speaker 3:And there was no. You don't feel like there was any sort of. She wasn't joking.
Speaker 2:No, yeah, no funny, no Ha ha.
Speaker 3:That wasn't a gift that you wanted to give her, nope.
Speaker 1:Could you imagine like all, ever all of the things that you have in your mind, right, you're like, even if you're like crazy which you're not right. So let's assume you're crazy which you're not right, and you decide you're like, yeah, baby, let's go, and you go to Portugal with this random stranger. You don't make it through the plane ride. Let's be honest, right, because there's going to be a point where you're like are we nuts?
Speaker 3:Is there any point where that sorry, yeah, I'm cutting you off? Well, I mean, don't mean to interrupt you, though I don't even think they go that far in rom-coms, Do they like?
Speaker 1:I don't even think I know a rom-com or that actually happens.
Speaker 3:There's actually okay, so just hear me out on this. There is actually a documentary on, I think, netflix serial killer. No it's on Netflix, but it's during COVID and it's like the longest third date ever, or whatever they call it. The longest third date, I think. And third date they decide to go to Costa Rica together and they get stuck there in the shutdown and they're there for like three months.
Speaker 2:And there just happened to be cameras around.
Speaker 3:So he's in Instagram like we're trying to be on. Instagram. Yeah, so he had all these snippets, so it's like basically all of his videos and then they fill in other stuff. It's like they're in like interviews and things like that to kind of tell the story. But yeah, I mean that's why they have the story, but like so.
Speaker 1:I'm not. So they fell in love with each other or they made a pact?
Speaker 3:I'm not telling you the end of it. You have to watch it. Yeah, we have homework, you have homework to do and we can. So Shades of Grey and Longest Third Date.
Speaker 1:Might as well just start watching the Bachelor, though.
Speaker 3:I mean, I had a long first date, but not a long third date. So what would be interesting, though, is what if you were leaving on that trip that Monday and she was like let's go? What if you had a great freaking time and she posed it differently, like I want to come? What if she was like, hey, can I book a flight and come with you?
Speaker 2:I think if it wasn't two and a half weeks, that's a commitment.
Speaker 3:I mean, but if you're staying in a hotel, you can always go to a-.
Speaker 1:There's no way that doesn't end up fucking bad and awkward.
Speaker 3:Yeah, no way. That's a long period of time.
Speaker 1:We're humans.
Speaker 2:If I have a weekend in Breck, I'm just like I want to come.
Speaker 3:Cool.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 2:We're leaving this time. Okay, I'm willing to roll those dice. Two and a half weeks internationally.
Speaker 1:For a trip you planned. Yeah, it wouldn't even cross my mind Separate rooms, even then, yeah.
Speaker 3:I'm just asking questions.
Speaker 1:I'm trying to be more curious. Here I would say no, people are different. What if?
Speaker 3:you if she would have. Yeah, maybe if she would have been more joking about it. Oh, 100%, and then you probably would have given her that gift, especially if it was her birthday in that time.
Speaker 2:Probably.
Speaker 1:That was not meant how about we go out to dinner and then I go to Spain and Portugal and then when I get back we can go out again? If it was our third date and things were amazing, I'll tell you all about it, we'll have something to talk about.
Speaker 2:And she's like listen, I'm going to book my own trip but something to talk about and she's like, listen, I'm gonna book my own trip, but tell me what trip you booked and we'll connect in spain or portugal.
Speaker 3:And I'll be like amazing, yeah or like a part of it or something me to buy her tickets. Yeah, that too, that's like a big expectation on the first date. That's what I found. So this goes back to like or this goes back to dating.
Speaker 1:Online dating is a fucking skill. It's not a skill and like, oh, pick up all these girls, blah, blah. The skill is the filter you gotta like. You gotta pick up on little things that people say, little things that people they gotta pick up on their pictures, so that you end up on dates with normal, reasonable people. Let's put it that way right? The goal I think on online dating is going out on dates with reasonable people that have a potential to be something, versus if you like don't know what you're doing, like if you're a greenhorn on online dating until you learn it's a wild ride. You got the fucking kitten fishes, you got the cat fishes, you got the crazies that want to go on.
Speaker 2:What is a kitten?
Speaker 1:fish. You like the crazies that want to go on vacation with?
Speaker 2:you. You got the I'm not crazy or the alcoholics face. I really wish you could see his face.
Speaker 3:That was that was priceless, that really. We needed a photo of that one.
Speaker 1:By the way, I've got three kids, and two of them are under four.
Speaker 3:Damn it yeah. I just met one of those.
Speaker 2:Halloween had two kids under four.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's when they don't tell you oh, by the way, I have three kids. And to me? That's not. I just had a baby yesterday.
Speaker 2:You don't need.
Speaker 1:Are you seeing someone A therapist?
Speaker 2:Every two weeks. Yeah, you should have that every week. He's busy.
Speaker 1:I love cock, blocking myself on my own podcast.
Speaker 2:Oh, the therapist is busy. He's like I don't have time for this.
Speaker 2:So, I think there are like I don't know, necessarily, if you need to tell me you have kids on the first date, I don't know if you need to tell me you have kids on the second date. I think we need especially from a woman to a man, Right, Because it's a for me, it's a safety Like you got to. You don't know who you're going out with, not through online dating. You have no idea. There have been my phone's all the way over there, but I think I still have it. I don't think I deleted it. I can't believe I'm going to admit this. Back in the day, probably January, February, I put a TikTok video out there that a girl commented on. And then You're on TikTok.
Speaker 2:It went viral. I am on TikTok. It didn't go viral but we started messaging and then she says to me I'd like to exchange numbers with you and I was like cool, you seem decent. I looked at her page divorced divorced older kids like teenage and close to being out of the house, and we talked for two days and I had like a busy day at work and emotionally a shitty day, so I stayed away from my phone okay and I got a novel.
Speaker 2:I thought things were going really well for us. Blah, blah, like it literally was, e it was a novel.
Speaker 3:As to Like you had disappeared.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 3:And you had talked to her for that morning Like just oh. She asked me what time my first meeting was and I told her there's a lot of this and I was like, like are, we are my moving, like what's going? On. Well, there's a lot. There's a lot. So you know, I think, with like social media and our phones, like we are constantly connected, so it's difficult, like if you and I'm not suggesting in this scenario cause?
Speaker 3:I think, no, I think in this scenario it's completely unrealistic, like it's a little silly that somebody is like upset with you if you didn't respond in that timeframe, but with the fact that we are like like, let's say that you were chatting with this person for a few weeks and then all of a sudden, there's like a difference in pattern or they're not available to respond to you for the entire day. Whoa, that got really loud. Sorry y'all, we're pretty connected to our stuff, right, and so I think people anymore can get very, I'm going to say, triggered, which is like a very strong explanation of the situation and should not be what happened here. Because you had only just started chatting with this person. Yeah, it was like three days, but people go zero to a hundred, and that's what triggered means. Right, like we, you are reminded of something, some kind of abandonment issue that has nothing to do with you, because you've just entered this person's life. Like you're not, you know, but unfortunately it's all being, I think I mean look even work emails Like, if I don't respond right away, people are like did you see this?
Speaker 3:Did you get this, did you did it? And it's like oh my God, can I just respond. I have other things happening. Like, just because you sent the email doesn't mean that I have the minute to think through everything that you asked for and come up with a response yet. Like, so there is just an expectation to respond all the fucking time and it drives me fucking nuts, cause I don't like being late and I don't like being rushed and I don't fucking like, because I don't like being late and I don't like being rushed and I don't fucking like, not like. I don't like this idea that I'm also like not fulfilling some sort of obligation, but I don't fucking like being given some obligation.
Speaker 2:That wasn't that I didn't agree to either right, so I understand that, but let me explain hypothetically a different scenario. Right, if I think that changes when you have a partner.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Because we're always attached to our phones, always attached to them.
Speaker 3:Right.
Speaker 2:Mine right now is sitting over there. I'm also of a different generation.
Speaker 3:You can like, if you need to. You can like see what you need to see, but I'm not concerned, like I'm not tied to it, not a priority yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm tied to it Hypothetically when I'm in a relationship, or whether it's committed or not committed, like if I think I'm in a relationship with you. I will look at my phone to make sure I didn't miss anything from you.
Speaker 3:Right or let someone know that you're going to be offline or not available for a period of time.
Speaker 2:Hey, I have a meeting coming up. Sorry, I probably won't be able to respond for whatever that meeting time is.
Speaker 3:I mean that girl clearly assumed that's where you were when you exchanged numbers that morning.
Speaker 2:Yeah, she thought we were in a committed relationship she thought we were engaged. I mean, I'm truly convinced the ring was in the mail it must have gotten lost, still talking about the girl that you want to go travel with you. No, we went on to another one while you were gone another from the online it was tiktok when I started that story, but I know I have expectations around a partner right. There's like we'll take Halloween, for instance. I don't care if you have 42 kids.
Speaker 3:That's a lot of kids. It is a lot of kids.
Speaker 2:Your phone is always next to you. To a to like I have one kid, for it doesn't matter.
Speaker 3:Yeah you have access, yeah especially if you have somebody that you care about.
Speaker 2:Correct, that is out there all I need is hey, got your message. Don't have really a lot of time or energy right now to respond, that's all I need. But at the same time, when you are sending, when we're messaging throughout the day and just like that, you wait 48 hours. That's a cadence change. People's cadence changes when they're either they're dealing with something that involves you or doesn't involve you. The problem around relationships is people don't share that like hey I'm really dealing with this, which is making this what do you want from me?
Speaker 3:this difficult but it's really about having the words like, but there's also having the practice and the words and the emotional, like the maturity to be able to say things right, like there are. You know I can sit here and be like oh I. You know I don't ghost people or whatever. I've certainly disappeared on people. I don't do that anymore. Fuck off, we're still friends.
Speaker 1:Not after months, though.
Speaker 3:But I genuinely I've gotten to a point where I'm comfortable with who I am and, if something doesn't feel right, being able to use words to just say that and be okay with that, and I feel like it's a kind thing to do for the other person too. But that isn't necessarily the case all the time. They're like I'm not perfect, like and so like. In this case, I think I'm not trying to make an excuse for this other person because I think it's bullshit, like especially because you would been seeing her for a period of time and that sucks, like you guys were that just sucks, like that sucks, and it's not okay.
Speaker 3:even if there was a period of time where you didn't speak, there should have been some like resolution, like some ability for you to just get a response or get some sort of answer, so that you could close that door and move on. Not everybody's able to do that and maybe you'll get it and maybe you won't, and that sucks Like.
Speaker 2:I can't get it at this point.
Speaker 3:So what's the lesson?
Speaker 2:Fairly certain. I stopped following her on Instagram. He did not stop following me, but I removed her, so that wasn't even because back in my day we could burn pictures, but you can't do that anymore.
Speaker 3:No, you just block, delete, block, do the thing.
Speaker 1:Back in the day you didn't have caller ID, you couldn't block anything. Star 69. You're like, damn it.
Speaker 3:You answer the phone You're like damn it.
Speaker 2:Damn it. Change my number. I think one of the things there's this pretentious thought around Let me not say that, that's a wrong way to put it. I also understand that there's real aspects of turning a man down and he loses his mind. I understand that's a real thing. I think in the four or five months whatever it was, six months, whatever it ended up being, I had shown that's not who I am. Just tell me like I'm not interested in you.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:Whatever it was, I'm not interested in you. I'm too recent from a divorce. I mean I will give her credit. She did say I'm not looking for a committed relationship, which should have triggered something in my brain to say she likes fun dates Cause I'm a fun.
Speaker 3:Yeah.
Speaker 2:I'm a fun date. You don't know that, but I'm a fun date. You don't know that, but I'm a fun date.
Speaker 1:I'll make you laugh. I've let my imagination run while we've been sitting here. Oh, Jay, my trauma will make you laugh.
Speaker 2:I become funnier the more I think about my trauma. But I I think we don't care about other people enough to be able to say this isn't working out. It's also not about caring about the other person.
Speaker 3:It's about, like, having respect for yourself and just wanting I don't know. That's what it comes down to for me at least. I don't want to speak for everybody else, but you again going, like I said this before you're very thoughtful, you're very loyal, you're very genuine and being on the receiving end of that situation that sucks. You know that.
Speaker 1:That sucks dating dating is is tough, it's not for the faint of heart, and I think that's why a lot of people drop out of it. But the reality is is I've mentioned this before on the podcast is in no time and ever in history have we ever been able to date, and more people, right? So we're putting these uncomfortable positions to have to. We're also more antisocial, right? We can hide behind our phones, we can text. We don't have to. You know, we're conflict avoidant, let's put it that way. So it's just different, right? So dating has become like.
Speaker 1:Dating has become everybody hates dating, right, like that's the general consensus. Everybody hates dating in their respective cities and it's the worst thing. And everybody's so awful and blah, blah. Because we've just created this dynamic where we we're dating too many people, we're having to deal with too much conflict like or, and we don't know how to deal with. We don't know how to reject, we don't know what the expectations are around rejection, right, like when you're dating somebody one or two times.
Speaker 1:Ghosting is inappropriate. It's not be an adult, but you don't. If you've only been on one or two dates with somebody, you don't owe them an explanation, even if they ask. You don't owe them an explanation, you owe it to them to say, look, I'm not interested anymore. I you don't owe them an explanation. You owe it to them to say, look, I'm not interested anymore. I appreciate you. I wish you the best. Whatever, the template is right, your situation because you told us before here is different. You were dating, you were in an early stage relationship, and to not get some sort of response is wholly inappropriate, and that's the stuff that I think everybody's dealt with in the dating world. That sort of chips away at us, right, and I wake up every morning knowing that I want to be in love, right at some point. I want to have a switch, I want to meet somebody, I want to fall in love, and the fucking process of getting there is fucking rough. Right, it's rough and it there's no way to beat around it. There's no like.
Speaker 1:I find dating to be very enjoyable and pleasant, but it comes with all these bumps in the road, right, all these like like the other day we were in the uber and there was a girl I was dating that texted me while we're in the uber, like I appreciate you both where we were meeting her and katie and I'm sitting there and we're having a nice conversation, blah, blah, having a lot of fun in the back of the uber and talking, and I'm like my heart sank for a second because I didn't see it coming right and I liked the girl and it caught me off guard because we have same thing. We have been texting, you know not, I wouldn't say non-stop, but texting, sending pictures, blah, blah, it felt cutesy. You know not, I wouldn't say nonstop, but texting, sending pictures, blah, blah, blah. It felt cutesy, you know.
Speaker 1:And then, just, I don't think we're a match, but I'm attracted to you and blah, blah, blah, but like, wish you the best, and it took everything in my power not to be like I don't understand, you know, because I've been rejected just as much as anybody else, right, but I, I pulled it together and I responded to her. I said I did say I'm like, I'm like, you know, it kind of caught me off guard and it's a bummer, but I wish you the best, that's all I said, right, but I'm still sitting here like what the fuck you know?
Speaker 3:um but it's just, it just sucks.
Speaker 1:There's no rhyme or reason. I don't know like I want to blame it on the podcast, that she listened to one of the podcast episodes and got some narrow glimpse of me, and that's something isn't that what online dating is?
Speaker 2:anyway, it's a narrow glimpse of someone.
Speaker 1:Well, that's what I wanted to bring up is people don't ask questions anymore, right, like I'm a little rare.
Speaker 1:He's a little rare in the sense that we're public, right, and we put ourselves out there. And, yes, anybody that's dating me can listen to 38 episodes now of me going through this growth journey, post-diverse and post-dad's death, and trying to figure out where I am and what I want, and blah, blah, blah. But anybody that knows me knows I'm a go-to-therapy, I'm a good person, I'm trying to figure this out and if you got to know me and ask questions, I'm just like you. In a lot of sense, I'm an open book. I'll answer your questions, I'll communicate with you, I'll tell you the truth, no matter how hard it is, and I'll try to explain myself. I just don't think a lot of people are like us, like a lot of there's not not everybody is like us in the sense that they know how to communicate. They don't want conflict, they just like they don't want to hurt your feelings, but in the process of them not hurting your feelings quote, unquote they're hurting your feelings and leaving you very confused.
Speaker 1:And you know, you know it hits it's temporary hit to our egos or whatever it is. It's just like just say I'm not interested in you. Not everybody's can be, not everybody's gonna fall in love with each other. That's dating is just. But it's so different than when, when our this is what I blows my mind is when our parents were kids like they were, they like got married when they were like 20. They dated like one person, two people. And here we are, like just running through the whole town.
Speaker 2:So actually, next month I'm going to nebraska for my nephew's wedding.
Speaker 3:He's not, he's 20, 20, maybe he might be 21 now shut up oh wow, getting married his fiance I mean, this is the reciprocal effect of your parents' relationship. So job well done to mom and dad.
Speaker 2:So I was asked this. I've been asked this by quite a few friends Do you agree with it? That's an interesting question One, because I'm not the one standing up there saying I do Right, but secondarily I do, and here's why I do and here's why, if I find a partner, all my past trauma walks with me. I can't help it. I'm human right. So I have trust issues. I was Marissa and I right. I have abandonment issues because I never felt like a priority with Mindy. There are deep rooted issues in my life At 20, I didn't have those Now. Do I have the EQ to be able to deal with some of the stuff that comes up in marriage? Probably not, not at that age, but we're both the same age and as long as we commit to fighting through it, we grow together and we don't bring that trauma, because I think that's one of the biggest issues in relationships is the fact that the number one issue is communication.
Speaker 2:Right, I don't want to say this because I don't want to hurt his feelings, I don't want to hurt her feelings. I don't want to say this because I don't know the way they'll look at me if I say whatever. X is Right. Secondarily, you do something that triggers and here goes this word again right. But it brings up a memory or a trauma that took place and now you're standing in the place of whoever. That was, hypothetically speaking, right. If I'm in a relationship with someone, for me, communication is key For me. I notice cadence. I'm hyper aware of people's cadence changes. I don't love it, but it is what it is, right. I will notice if you look at me different than you looked at me yesterday.
Speaker 3:I will notice. Sorry, I just realized I never shut that door.
Speaker 2:It's okay, it's okay.
Speaker 3:That's why there's that fly still flying around in here Flying around.
Speaker 1:I have a question regarding this. Once you're done, but keep going.
Speaker 2:Okay, I notice cadence change. I'm that guy who I pay attention not to get a gotcha moment but to find something to do for you. Right, with Halloween, I'd be talking to her and she's like I'm cold. I'm like it's 70 degrees outside, how are you cold? But she runs cold. I noticed that. I take a mental note, or I'll even write it down. Right, I have keep notes on from Google and I'll write notes, just you being thoughtful, yeah.
Speaker 2:So I noticed things like that in the person I'm seeing Right, but at the same time that becomes too much. So when going back to do I think they're too young to get married. I don't. My parents have been married for 55 years and my mom was super young when they got. I think she was 19 or 20 when she had my sister.
Speaker 3:Yeah, I mean, I think it depends on if you align on certain approaches or core values and things that they probably maybe they do, because I feel like the younger generation is very much more aware of certain things than what we were at that age.
Speaker 2:But I think they have the world opened up to them in the internet.
Speaker 3:I mean they also are just fit. There's a lot of EQ for people that are in the younger generation than I think that we do. Yeah, they have a lot of resources available to them.
Speaker 1:I mean, there's no perfect equation. Look at all the people that are getting married at a normal age or getting divorced.
Speaker 3:I think the divorce rate is.
Speaker 1:I don't think it's actually 50%, but I think it's like 37%. Can I?
Speaker 2:say this they don't have EQ.
Speaker 3:Okay.
Speaker 1:They have knowledge around things, but EQ is that's something that's wrong. That whole generation's running around thinking they have EQ and I'm sorry, eq comes with fucking age. It does Like you can't you have to have experiences, you have to lose people, you have to deal with your friends' issues.
Speaker 3:Some of them have that. Some of them have that. No, that's not it at all. I'm just, it was just a. I hope that it. I hope that it goes well for them, I think 221-year-olds can build a foundation that 240-year-olds would have more difficult time 100% Because of the things you're saying.
Speaker 1:I think that they're probably going to run into a big, if not multiple, bumps in the road throughout their relationship.
Speaker 2:That's what relationships are, though.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I do want to go back to cadence, because you've said it multiple times. So I was in a relationship in my marriage. I'm a very different person in this regard, by the way. I can pick up on people's energy and cadence too. I don't tend to focus on it and it doesn't. But I was married to somebody who was very much like you, that picked up on stuff, picked up on everything and I don't know. I want to.
Speaker 1:The question I want to ask you is that she would immediately call me on it, right, and I would immediately. I would tell her all the time I'm like look, honey, like it's not about you right now, this is about something else that's going on in my brain. I'm trying to figure it out. I need time, but it was always like forcing me to address the issue and it got not just annoying, it impacted our relationship because it forced me to, because sometimes it was about her and I hadn't processed it right. I was like I need to. She could catch my energy and my cadence right away and she'd call me on it and force me to address the issue when I hadn't mentally articulated it. Or I would tell you I would. Probably I can sit here and tell you that 70 of the time. If she would have gave me the time to or think about it, it would have passed and been an afterthought.
Speaker 1:But since I was forced to deal with it all the time. It just chipped away at our relationship, where I think everybody's going to have an issue in time with their relationship, right 100%?
Speaker 2:There's no way to have a perfect cadence in a relationship, right, there are people who are in tune with it. Here's what I would say, right, if here we go, joe and I in a relationship again, if you and I are in a relationship, it's 45. It's all.
Speaker 3:If you're, if we're in a relationship and I notice a cadence. How do you know that already? Sorry, right, and I notice a cadence change. How do you know that already?
Speaker 2:Sorry, right, and I notice a cadence change and I bring it to your attention. I'm bringing my concerns to you. It's now your responsibility to say I have not processed it. It's about work, it's about an opportunity that I'm looking at, or it's about you. You did something and I'm just trying to process it. The problem is, in that situation, people leave it at that. So now, me being an overthinker, me being somebody who notices cadences, I'm going to the worst possible option. He hates me. I didn't do this right, I didn't do this right. I didn't do this right, I didn't do this right. I don't deserve to be in this relationship versus if I say I haven't processed it. I'll tell you what on Saturday, we'll sit down and talk about it.
Speaker 1:See, I disagree because, like I said, 70% of the time I think it's going to pass. Where did you come up with that number? It could pass, but it's still something that changed. Well, 75% of the time I think it's going to pass.
Speaker 2:Where did you come up with that number? It could pass, but it's still something that changed.
Speaker 1:Well, 75% of statistics are made up on site. You know this, right, I know.
Speaker 2:That's why I was asking you where you got that number.
Speaker 1:Sometimes you just have to say numbers, what?
Speaker 2:I'm saying, is it could pass?
Speaker 1:45. 45. 38. That's my sleep number. Mine are probably 65. We'd have problems.
Speaker 2:You have your own side.
Speaker 1:Mine's 69.
Speaker 2:How about a 68? And I owe you one. Oh, that's a song, but what I'm saying is this it may pass, but it was significant enough for your cadence to change, which means I need to be made aware of it, because, even though it passes, if I'm doing the same thing over and, over and over, at one point in time, it's not going to pass.
Speaker 1:No, I agree, but this is where communication comes in. I guess there's a difference between cadence, I think, and just frustration sometimes.
Speaker 2:Why, in a relationship, should we?
Speaker 1:not be sharing, because we're assuming that people have the ability to communicate effectively in a relationship, and that's.
Speaker 2:Even if I can't communicate effectively and I need time to get to an effective place, we're all adults, right? We all speak the same general language.
Speaker 3:So there's. I actually just went through this like I don't know. It's kind of it's going to sound silly, but it's like, uh, the crucial conversations. There's a book called crucial conversations and our company did like a little training on it and people have these default ways that they respond. In like a moment of stress, I'll say and I'm probably not using the same terminology that the book used, but and it's, I think, to me very similar in these situations where some people shut down and some people lash out right and avoidance.
Speaker 3:Yeah Well, or some people fight, or it's like the fight or flight, right, so fight, flight, freeze, right. And so you just have a person who is shutting down and sort of withdrawing in that situation, which is maybe triggering you in a different way. Right, like something happened. They respond this way, their response may trigger you, which may be a sign that they're not a good match for you.
Speaker 2:That's not true, right?
Speaker 3:I disagree with that, but I'll let you finish Like if that's how somebody responds in a moment and that's their default going forward because that's what they like, that's in their core being and that in itself triggers you in a way that isn't good for you.
Speaker 2:That's not a good match. So I'll give you an example. I saw this thing on Instagram, this reel. The guy talked about the fact he's an overthinker. So when you don't communicate with me, I start coming up with my own.
Speaker 3:Right, we all. Yes, you come up with your own story.
Speaker 2:Right, his wife is an avoidance type.
Speaker 3:Yep.
Speaker 2:So if a conflict arises, she wants to leave Yep and in his mind that's ruining him.
Speaker 1:That was the relationship I was in.
Speaker 2:So what they decided was this If we have a conflict and you want to leave, you don't get to leave this house. You can go up to the room and tell me I need a minute to process. Those are two very triggering people to one another.
Speaker 3:But they've made an agreement, they've made a commitment and an agreement to one another.
Speaker 1:But the agreement is not honored. It's not honored, but in that scenario, that is honored. It's never honored In this scenario. It was In that scenario.
Speaker 3:it is honored and that's okay.
Speaker 1:That is a boundary and something that people— but you're talking minutes, so let me tell you what happens in this situation.
Speaker 2:It doesn't matter, you guys.
Speaker 3:I fucking get it. I've been in all of this, but these are, this is this is all fucking trauma that people deal with, that we all. Well, I want to say all because I think unfortunately I'm probably surrounded by people that we all have similar trauma. It's probably why. I'm attracted to y'all but like there are people that have less of it, I don't know Whatever, I don't know those people. I'm just saying like I'm, I'm trying to be funny about it, but in trauma response.
Speaker 2:By the way, I learned that in therapy the.
Speaker 3:The reality is there's. I learned that in therapy. The reality is there is like this yin and yang to these situations, and having awareness around it is very important. Say this is what we're going to do when this happens. That is comfortable, so that you don't deteriorate. The foundation of a relationship is very important. That didn't happen in the scenario that you were outlining, though. Like right, and so that's where it's like. That then becomes very disrespectful, and I've been in that situation too, right.
Speaker 2:So I think in in a, in a relationship, the first thing, the first thing before the commitment, before, like, if you decide to date somebody seriously, exclusively, whatever that looks like right, the agreement needs to be this we will have transparent communication, even if it hurts your feelings. I've had that one time in my life, that's it. With that you can then say that hurt, I know you were joking or I know you were saying X, y or Z, but that makes me feel this way Because I've given you and you've given me space to be able to be honest. That's such a key.
Speaker 1:Communication is the pillar in that relationship I agree with you and I think if that type of communication leads to the end of your relationship, then that's also not then that's indicative that the relationship doesn't work exactly because why would you want to be a relationship where that doesn't?
Speaker 1:I don't ever want to be a relationship. I mean we all have this trauma now, right, I think we all want to be in a relationship. I mean we all have this trauma now, right, I think we all want to be in that relationship now. I think we're all ready for that relationship. Us three sitting here all go to therapy, work on ourselves, understand communication. My next relationship is going to be that relationship.
Speaker 2:There's not, in my opinion, there's not a successful relationship. It doesn't have communication as a foundation or a pillar in the relationship. Because if I can't tell you, I can even say it in this phrase. I'm scared to say this because I don't want to lose you, but you saying X cuts me or makes me feel this way, right, and in that moment now the onus is on me If I go deal with it, right, the worst words you can say in a relationship is that's who I am. That means I've shut off any. That's like a period. Yeah, that's a period.
Speaker 3:We're not talking. There's no a period. Yeah, that's a period. We're not talking anymore.
Speaker 2:There's no more communication. Communication dies in that moment.
Speaker 3:I want to go back for a second, because I think I appreciate what you are bringing up in this sense of both. People can have different traumas and things that can trigger one another, and you can have boundaries and respect for one another. Where the conversation started on this topic, though, was someone that was disrespecting you in that, and that, to me, is why I said that's a mismatch, because that person didn't have that respect for you and that, to you, should have been. That is the closure. That is all that you should fucking need, because you are an incredible person and that person people are telling us who they are all the fucking time.
Speaker 3:People are telling us yeah, exactly, and I mean that applies for even me, right, like I? I know I'm a good person, but I'm not a good person. For you can find these like happy balances within relationships, when there is like mutual love and respect of one another, and when you have awareness around the things that you need and you can find ways for that to happen. And, joel, to your point where you actually uphold that too right, like it's not just, oh, I'm going to say we're going to do this, but we actually follow through on it. And that's where trust is built too.
Speaker 1:No, I mean, I'm, I'm, you know, I'm pretty, I was pretty bad at it in our relationship. But I also think the dynamic was I just don't, I don't like conflict, I don't like dealing with conflict. I certainly don't like dealing with it in the moment. And I was forced to deal with it in the moment and that just never worked out well, Cause it's just it, just everybody's don't ever deal with something, and when people are angry, that's no you just gotta like and some things are more serious than others but like you gotta give your person space instead of time to deal with it.
Speaker 1:and in my case, I think to be to like sort of take some responsibility for my behavior is I think I just never went back and dealt with it, and that was the frustration that started to brew, was like sure, you're not going to deal with it now and you're not going to deal with it later and we're not going to deal with it at all. And that's where. So that's where that behavior and that cycle started to start. It wasn't in the beginning of a relationship, it just that's where it grew. To Joel, can I interrupt you real quick?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think if and it goes back to the disrespect aspect that you spoke of I think if in your marriage, she would have respected the fact that you needed a moment to, whether it was, think about it or to understand even what you're feeling about whatever it is that took place, and then you were allowed to speak about it in a time that was after you've given it thought, instead of in the moment. Because if we're forced to speak about something that we're not ready to speak about in the moment, we're going to say things we don't mean Because we haven't processed it. So if you would have had that aspect in your marriage, it would have changed the dynamic of your marriage. Hey, I noticed your cadence changed. Or you came home and you didn't say hi, you didn't give me a kiss, and you've done this three days in a row. Did I do something wrong? What's wrong with you?
Speaker 2:Instead of the barrage of questions or potentially you feeling like you're being attacked in whatever cadence you are currently in, her just saying something's changed and you say I feel that way, but I don't know what it is, let's talk about it, give me a couple of days to think about it, and she would have been okay with. That, changes the dynamic of your relationship. That changes the dynamic of your relationship Because for me, like if I ever, hypothetically, ever get into a relationship and I noticed somebody's cadence changes, I'm going to bring it up. Hey, your cadence has changed. You were sending me 15 messages a day or whatever that, whatever the cadence change is, and now you sent me two messages yesterday and I realized that you were on Facebook for six hours. So it's not a matter of you not having access or being too busy.
Speaker 1:Something changed.
Speaker 2:Something changed and her saying you're right, Let me think about that and get back to you. And I go okay, it gives her the space to figure out why things have changed and then tell me if we have the mutual agreement of communication. Right, I don't.
Speaker 1:I'm not concerned and the EQ to communicate, and I think that I wasn't the same person several years ago than I am now. Right, yeah, none of us are, and, I think, a lot of people. I mean, I think to maybe start to wrap this up, but, like, I think number one is or?
Speaker 3:how long are we going on?
Speaker 1:we're about an hour and 40 minutes I think it's been wonderful.
Speaker 3:I can keep doing this. Yeah, I know we are going to come back.
Speaker 1:But I think individuals I say this to everybody before you go to couples therapy maybe you guys disagree I think everybody needs to go to individual therapy.
Speaker 2:I think couples therapy is a scam. I do too, and I'll tell you why. Somebody always picks sides. You have to pick a side, yep.
Speaker 1:And the therapist might not be picking a side, but somebody is going to think somebody is picking a side. If you don't agree with me, they do.
Speaker 3:I think it's very natural for that to happen and it is okay to go, I think.
Speaker 2:Plus, your insurance doesn't cover it.
Speaker 3:Well, I think it's okay to go with your partner to their therapist for them to help that person, but I don't think any one person that's in your eyes.
Speaker 2:Help them.
Speaker 3:I don't know. Look, I only went with my ex-boyfriend after we broke up and I think individual therapy right, Because if it's a good therapist, she doesn't listen.
Speaker 2:I tell her this 72 times.
Speaker 3:No, they call bullshit. Correct, yeah, they call bullshit.
Speaker 2:Not all therapists. You have, yes-man therapists out there.
Speaker 3:So I've always had a therapist and I've had different ones along the way, but no, I don't. The only time I've gone with someone was actually after we split up, and he was like trying to work through things and wanted me to come in and give some context context to that person.
Speaker 1:so it yeah, so anyway, so that's my yeah, that's my I just think it's a really I think it's a really hard practice and I'm sure there are good couples therapists out there. But I just, if you haven't gone to individual therapy, then what are you doing? Because the reality is that the reality is is you need to get perspective on your what you got, to get perspective on yourself, your situation, and then get the external awareness at the same time. And you can't get that in couples therapy. There's too much friction, he said. She said blah blah. It's not a safe environment to work through both your relationship and your individual stuff. And if you can't, let's we all I think we all agree you can't fix a relation, you can't fix a relationship If you can't fix a relationship with yourself.
Speaker 3:I have an idea. What's that? What if you go to therapy with your therapist and you each bring your own therapist?
Speaker 2:That's so silly. That's three therapists being paid no two therapists?
Speaker 3:No, because if you bring yours and I bring mine and he's the couples.
Speaker 2:That's three, no, no.
Speaker 3:Two therapists no, because if you bring no, no, I bring mine and he's the couples, that's three. No, no, not a couple therapist, just you both go what if you bring a couple friends too?
Speaker 1:then it just becomes the same.
Speaker 3:It's a thruple, it's a sick tuple, six tuple so your your next.
Speaker 1:Oh, there's another thing that you never, don't, ever tell your partners my friends agree with me? Oh, hell, no, my friends, I told them that this is called the invisible army. Uh, thank you, bernie brown what did you actually tell the invisible army?
Speaker 3:yeah, first of all, you've told other people about it, which is problem number one, and now you're creating the invisible army of people to combat it's not poisoning the well.
Speaker 1:That's what it's not fucking cool. What were you going to say, uche?
Speaker 2:Let me ask you this and this can be your next topic on your next show.
Speaker 3:Oh, we have several I've come up with in my head from this one.
Speaker 2:Do you believe in soulmates?
Speaker 3:No, oh, the topic Okay yeah, fuck, no, are you going to come back for this? I don't know yeah well, you came up with it, so you're coming back.
Speaker 2:I'm just asking do you believe in soulmates?
Speaker 3:Next week?
Speaker 1:Oh, no, wait, I'm out of town next week, two weeks. I believe in souls, soulmates.
Speaker 3:Do you believe in soulmates? I like it. I wasn't have to edit it out. That is a good topic, by the way.
Speaker 1:The other one I want to talk about is I just forgot it. You guys, what the fuck? It's a good topic.
Speaker 3:I keep doing this to myself. I'll think of it again.
Speaker 1:Can we wrap it?
Speaker 3:up yeah.
Speaker 1:Are we having?
Speaker 3:a. No, I can't. It starts with a C. Seriously, this is how my brain works. It starts with the c I.
Speaker 1:I think emmanuel agrees with me. This is the best three-way I've ever had. You're amazing hands down. I think you need to start dating again there's. You're too good of a person not to be out there and uh we're gonna go two birds fit.
Speaker 3:We're gonna take you to one of their events yeah, we're gonna go mixers, it's awesome it's so, we're gonna go and I always have a, a wingman with me that happened to work for actually. Yeah, yeah, worked for him I'll.
Speaker 2:I'll ask the guys you want to you find attractive. I'll ask them questions oh good and then I'll be like, oh my gosh, do I have someone for you?
Speaker 1:she just sits in the corner. Guys come up to her.
Speaker 2:That's what she does yeah, I'm not 12 for, so I have to make you're tall.
Speaker 1:Though you'd be tall, you'd stick out. You definitely would be.
Speaker 3:No, you would clean up.
Speaker 2:Yes, you would, both of you I'm planning my trip to Italy, so when?
Speaker 1:are you going? Well, you can meet a girl at Two Birds and take her with the next day.
Speaker 2:No, I'm traveling with my sister and her oldest son.
Speaker 1:Oh, that'll be fun.
Speaker 2:We haven't decided yet, but hopefully it'll be next year. Perfect, very nice.
Speaker 1:This'll be a fun one. Thanks everybody. Thank you, uche. Remember to follow us, subscribe, share your stories and we'll see you on the next episode.
Speaker 2:Whoop, whoop, as they say. Catch you on the next one, oh yeah.
