Midlife Uncensored
Midlife Uncensored-Real Life Discussions from Over the Hillis the no-holds-barred podcast you didn’t know you needed. Hosted by Joel Poppert, aka Poppy—the friendly Sasquatch with an epic beard—and his fiery co-host, Emanuela Messineo, aka E, this show unapologetically dives into the chaos, comedy, and WTF moments of midlife. If you’re 35-55 and ready to embrace the rollercoaster of aging, this podcast is your new home base.
Poppy and E tackle everything from modern dating disasters in the hilarious sub-series The Love Laugh Lounge (the “festivus” of dating) to real-life shit like divorce, mental breakdowns, balding, sagging tits, and figuring out how to parent while still figuring yourself out and maybe dealing with an unhinged ex. With a blend of interview episodes and no-expert-needed banter (except when we bring on experts), these two cut through the BS and get real about midlife—no filters, no sugarcoating, just pure, unfiltered truth with a heavy dose of humor. Expect raw, relatable stories, unfiltered guidance, tough love, easy happiness, and a few episodes where the comedy comes from alcohol infused banter, because who give a fuck, right?
Whether you’re dealing with the joys of aging, trying to keep your sanity while raising kids, or attempting to find love in a sea of idiots, Midlife Uncensored has your back. Expect a few F-bombs, some belly laughs, and a whole lot of honesty as Poppy and E rip the band-aid off midlife and give you permission to thrive in this beautifully messy chapter. It's not just about surviving midlife—it's about unfucking it and owning it! This is your community; we are in it together!
Midlife Uncensored
Can Men and Women Really Just Be Friends?
In this episode of Midlife Uncensored, Joel "Poppy" Poppert and his co-host, Emanuela "E" Messineo, dive headfirst into the age-old debate: Can men and women really just be friends? Sharing their own personal stories—including how their friendship blossomed after meeting on a dating app—they tackle the complexities of platonic friendships between the sexes. From navigating societal expectations to handling jealous partners, they leave no stone unturned.
Get ready for candid conversation, sprinkled with humor, as Poppy and E explore how friendships evolve in midlife, the pressures from the outside world, and what it really takes for men and women to maintain a solid platonic relationship. Whether you're single, dating, or just curious about these dynamics, this episode offers a refreshing and honest take on friendships, boundaries, and the occasional chaos that comes with midlife connections. Plus, the duo introduces a fun new segment, “You Know You’re Over the Hill When…” that’s sure to have you laughing out loud.
Tune in, follow, and slip into their DMs to share your own thoughts or questions!
How to Engage with Us
- Email us at joel@owningalonepodcast.com
- DM us on Instagram midlifeuncensored
- Follow Joel on IG jpoppert
- Follow Emanuela on IG emanuela5683 or accountability_with_e
Thanks for joining the Owning Alone community, I certainly appreciate you!
All right, all right, all right. Welcome to another episode of Midlife Uncensored Real talk from over the hill. This is your host, joel Popper, your friendly Sasquatch with the epic beard game, and, to my right here, my lovely co-host Emanuela Methenayo, also known as E.
Speaker 2:Hi, how are you doing? I'm good. How are you you?
Speaker 1:like my radio voice.
Speaker 2:I do. You do such a good job. I would be like tripping over myself, so thank you for always, uh, taking the lead what's that?
Speaker 1:what's that saying? I got a face for radio. Somebody said that to me one time. I'm like that's good, that's good um what's going on. Uh, not much. It's saturday. It's. Maybe it's just me, but is it unseasonably fucking warm for october in denver right now? Um?
Speaker 2:it definitely is, and I got quite the shock when I got to canada this week and I forgot yeah I forgot my jacket, had to buy a new winter jacket while I was there because it was freezing, it was snowing, so that's what's coming soon here, but it's still hot. Now I'll take it. I'm enjoying the heat.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not ready to let it go. It's getting it now. Yeah, it's going to get into the.
Speaker 2:so not this week, but the following week it's going to drop into the 70s, so it's coming. Let's just hope it's warm for my Halloween party, because last year we had snow.
Speaker 1:But rain always goes either way.
Speaker 2:Not rain. Let's hope it's either snow or sunshine. Hopefully no rain, but we're going to be on the roof regardless.
Speaker 1:So I can't remember. Do you have stand up heater up there?
Speaker 2:I do not Mostly because it's just hard to store stuff up there. I do have that fire pit, though, so I'll have that going. I may need to take the sunshade down so I don't burn, burn, catch the house on fire I think you'll be all right what is going on.
Speaker 1:It's good to see you so since you've last seen me, you've been to Canada. I had my boys weekend. I got back from Wisconsin and went up to Dylan, spent the weekend in Dylan with some of my best friends.
Speaker 2:So you had your boys weekend. You guys had a good time. You were in bed by 11,. I think you said so it's like the over the hill boys weekend.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I just don't have it in me to party Like I used to.
Speaker 2:I mean, I don't think you need to. You can still have like tons of fun during the day, doesn't need to be an all nighter.
Speaker 1:Well, it's crazy to me, Like I spent so many years like partying like 1999, you know and like being the last one still drinking and blah blah, and then just like some point, I think it just stopped. It's like, but whatever is it, is it because you don't want the hangover or I don't want the hangover? Yeah, I don't want the hangover.
Speaker 1:I think I'm very conscientious of the hangover and I know that the hangover is some combination of drinking too much and not going to bed at time yeah because for all you younger people that if you listen to this podcast, what happens to you at some point is that you don't get to, you don't sleep in anymore it's you wake up when you wake up at the same time, regardless of what time you went to bed, so like, and sleep really impacts drinking. Really impacts my sleep. And don't get me wrong, I still drink. I basically drink every night, but I just have a couple drinks. I don't don't get drunk. They're like high noons which are basically water.
Speaker 2:Unless we go out to a comedy show and drink all the wine.
Speaker 1:Yeah, somebody's buying wine. I thought we made a pact not to drink wine anymore.
Speaker 2:Yeah exactly, although I did drink wine this week and it agreed with me, so I don't know, you are Italian.
Speaker 1:I know. I think I'm reserving wine for only when I'm in italy. Now, okay, I like that. Um or europe, because wine in europe doesn't have the preservatives that we have in ours.
Speaker 2:Well, I was in canada, so does that count? I don't know, I don't know what the fuck they do up there I don't know, but it seems a lot more peaceful, better energy, a lot more relaxed people up there are they?
Speaker 1:seem like it I thought canadians were.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't know anything about them I don't know I, have you ever been to bamf? I've never been to canada okay, well, we need to go. Even though I grew up, pretty much in canada so I'm gonna, I'm gonna maybe I'm thinking about planning a trip and just inviting whoever wants to join. I'm going to be like this is the hotel. I'm going to plan a few things. Whoever wants to join on whatever things, they join or they don't and we can all hang out in the evenings together.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're pretty good about that. Other than that, nothing else crazy.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:You've been dating too. I have been I wouldn't call it dating, but I'm a hangout.
Speaker 2:Going out. I'm a hangout. Oh, look at you, you're hanging out.
Speaker 1:Hanging out with girls.
Speaker 2:You just talking to girls.
Speaker 1:And we are attracted to each other.
Speaker 2:Oh, look at that. Yeah, we make out sometimes. That's a nice thing.
Speaker 1:They're like friends that we make out with.
Speaker 2:I like it, I, I. Yeah, I've been dabbling a little bit and having a good time and also just uh doing my own thing. Work travel's been like very enjoyable lately and yeah, you were like in the bermuda and you're going to bamf like jesus.
Speaker 2:I went from 80 degrees and 80 degrees and, uh, beach, yeah, island life, to snow and the mountains in canada. Man, let me tell you, if you've not been to bamf go, I was there for a conference, so most of my time there was work stuff but I was able to sneak in like one little like trip out to see Lake Moraine was, I think it's yeah.
Speaker 1:I saw your picture.
Speaker 2:Dude, just incredible, Like I can't at some point, like you try to capture it in a photo and it just doesn't. So you do your best and then you just have to kind of sit back and take it in, because it is just breathtaking and you know, know, we live here, Rocky Mountains. It's just so different, it's like I don't know, just cannot explain it. I genuinely, if I had been there at a younger age, I probably would have lived there At this point. I would not, because I don't like winter that much and there's already snowing there, so they have a pretty long winter. Not for me anymore. I would gravitate more towards warm weather and that's why I love Denver, because we get a lot of sunshine and whatever we do, get a lot of sunshine, but yeah.
Speaker 2:So if you've never been to Banff, canada, go, there's so many. I didn't realize how many national parks are like right there. Jasper National Park is like on the other side. There's so much stuff so really cool, really friendly people, easy to get in and out of there. Anyways, that that's my little spiel on that and just planning my trip to Europe. So I'm going to be gone for at least two weeks this winter.
Speaker 1:I'm excited for you going to.
Speaker 2:Italy on for at least two weeks this winter. I'm excited for you going to Italy. So got a direct flight, first class to Munich. They were running a really nice deal. So land on Christmas Eve in Munich and then we're doing Salzburg and Halostat and then off to Milan, lake Como, and then from there I will go further south and I may make a few more stops. I haven't figured out the rest of the trip, but my goal is to get over and see my uncle for at least like four or five days. So I got to figure some of that out with work, and if I can extend it and do like work from there for a few days, I may make a few other stops, because when you drive down from milan to like where my uncle is, there's so much good stuff in the middle there. Um, I'd love to see again. So I'm gonna get to knock off some new countries off the list nice.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I have big aspirations for this winter too, but I haven't figured out yet. I'm, uh, definitely gonna go sail with my buddy down to bvi again, and then, uh, I really want to get down to colombia it was barcelona. I wanted to go to barcelona this winter, but I'm like I think I'm gonna save that for when it's warmer in barcelona oh yeah, I would just go down to colombia wait, remind me, have you been to barcelona? No.
Speaker 2:Okay, go, definitely go when it's warmer. That's the way to go. I went in October two years ago and it was lovely. It was like fall time, but I feel like the time to go there is definitely when it's warmer, like go at least like August, september or something like that. Oh, that was the ice machine.
Speaker 1:I was like what's just happening?
Speaker 2:I thought it was a ghost because I have all the spooky decorations.
Speaker 1:You're like ready, getting ready. There's like handprints and bloody footprints on the floor like a month early.
Speaker 2:I'm not a month early. The trader wants to be on the podcast well, I'm out of town the week before my um halloween party, so I need to start getting ready nice gotta have it all ready to go so drum roll.
Speaker 1:I think that this is the episode that everybody's been waiting for. But before we start, uh, I want to remind everybody to follow us on instagram at midlife, uncensored. I keep trying to say only alone. Right now, we just have Instagram slip into our DMs. We want to hear from you guys. You know we've heard from a few of you guys. We just want to know what's going on out there so we can address your problems on air. We won't name you, but we'll talk about them, and we've got some interviews coming up. We're going to be interviewing Karen with Two Birds Fit, so I'm super excited about that, and some other ones that we'll talk about soon.
Speaker 1:But we've been meaning to get to this episode, and this episode is all about this question of whether men and women can be friends. So, to give you a little background, emmanuel and I are obviously very good friends. We're newer friends. We met, I don't know, maybe a year or two ago now, in full transparency. We met on Hinge, a dating app, and we went on a date or two together and then realized that we should be friends and committed to that.
Speaker 1:And here we are, but there is not a person in our lives or strangers that meet us, that can wrap their head around us being friends and the series of questions that we get whether we're fucking, whether we're in love with each other, whether why are we dating, you're both good looking people and smart, and blah, blah, blah. And it's like blows my mind that people like can't just accept it. And there have been. I'm gonna be really honest, uh, with our listeners. There have been times where I get really mad. I get mad and frustrated because I feel like it's so much and so consistent that it's threatening to our friendship. So let's talk about that. And I know we're not the only ones. We're the I know we're not the only ones. We're not the only guy and girl that are friends in the world.
Speaker 1:I know Charlie Barron deals with it. If you don't know who Charlie Barron is, he's the Wisconsin comedian guy. He's got a whole thread, but I forget what her name is. They're really good friends and they do skits together, and every time they do a skit together I look at the comments and they clearly have more followers than us and it's just why aren't you guys together? You're so cute together, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:You should be together, blah, blah, blah, like and it's come on, guys. I think, yeah, it's definitely hard to. I don't know what the answer is, other than it's just like. I mean, not everybody is a match. Just because we can be like great friends and we're single and attractive people doesn't mean that we're the best matches for each other, that we check the boxes or whatever you want to call it. So I think what was the question?
Speaker 1:Whether or not, so I think we have to go through this in stages. The broader question is whether or not men and women can be friends.
Speaker 2:Well, we're friends and I'm not letting anybody ruin that.
Speaker 1:You're my newest best friend, my bestie. We spend a lot of time together because one we enjoy each other's company. We've got a fucking podcast. I think the podcast came because we enjoy and we have good conversations. We're both single in our 40s and we have a lot in common, but I also think there's I think the answer is more gray. I think it's more yes or no right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we can because we made that commitment. We're both very self aware. We've got good mental health. Uh, we don't allow other people, external people, to tell us what to do with our lives. We listen to people and we listen to their input, but I think we know ourselves well enough to make decisions for ourselves. I think there's some people, I think there's a certain dynamic, like I think that the answer is yes and no. I think sometimes it can be, you know, particularly for guys, I think, or maybe girls too.
Speaker 2:Like sometimes those friendships are the guy or the girl wants to be with the other party and like they're in, the friend zone, but they don't want to be in the friend zone.
Speaker 1:And that's that's. That's probably not going to last.
Speaker 2:There's a lot of dynamics and I think the I agree with you that the answer is great. I think yes and no, and it totally depends on the people, and there's so many ways we I mean we could probably talk about this for hours, and so maybe we'll have to like come back to this.
Speaker 1:Let me ask you the first question, but I'm gonna put this no go. So my first question, because I think this needs to go on stages is can men and do men and women seek out the counter like so, as a man, do the, do men, or as a woman, do women seek? We met dating. We met on a dating. I wasn't necessarily running around looking for a fucking girlfriend. And I don't think many like a friend, that's a girl, right.
Speaker 1:And I've mentioned this many times I'm looking for men to be friends with. I need more male friends that are maybe even not married and have kids.
Speaker 2:That would be great, so I wasn't running around looking for girls, so I should date interviewing for potential friends for you.
Speaker 1:Yeah. So my first question is do men and women run around looking for the opposite sex to be friends with?
Speaker 2:Okay, so I think I'm very unique in this, Okay so yeah, I think I'm very unique in this and that I would say, yes, I don't I'm not necessarily doing it to seek friends, but I'm also like, if we aren't a match for whatever reason, but I, there's something that I like about your personality, like from the minute I met you and I like dove in and had very easy conversation and I really that is something that's like very meaningful to me and so, um, but I think there's, I think it's hard, cause I think even when you pose like, hey, let's just like be friends, then I think most guys are a bit skittish about it, cause they're like, yeah, I don't a number one. They're mostly like, yeah, I don't need a friend, or or they think that you have ulterior motives or whatever.
Speaker 1:So for me, I genuinely it's also an ego thing too. I mean, men have been particularly by by their 40s, have been friend-zoned enough times where their ego gets a little fragile. So you have to be, you got to be a man, you got to have a good head on your shoulders and recognize the potential friendship. Why?
Speaker 2:were you willing to be friends with me then, putting you on the spot?
Speaker 1:Because I'm smart enough to know and this is an age thing too, I don't. I think when you're younger, in college, and there's just all these friends around, like, maybe this doesn't, this isn't a priority, particularly for men, maybe not women either, but like you're just, you're good, right, you got all these friends you're trying to. You know hook. You're older and midlife, all your friends are married and have kids and there's just not as many friends around. So when you recognize a very the potential for a really good friendship, if you're smart enough and aware enough, you make it happen, because friends are hard to come by, male or female. So I think that's what that was certainly. What was going through my head was like, okay, I can either just like we can just go our separate ways, or like we really enjoyed talking to each other and the friendship was there and we just we're. We were both smart enough and bold enough to say let's just be friends and, uh, thank God we did so.
Speaker 2:I know I think okay, so to go back and answer your question and then I want to make sure that you answer it too. I don't think that most women seek that out. I think I'm unique, that I genuinely love connections and I try to build like a network of really good people around me. And so whenever I recognize some kind of connection or something with someone like with you was like the ability to have these conversations I just felt like I would, I felt like I would grow as a person having you in my life. You know like so, something like that to me. I'm like I, I would give that a go. You know like I would throw out let's just be friends. Then Right, like, if we're not a match, that's great.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to take it personally, especially because it wasn't like further down the line. I think and now this could go into a different topic on this and I won't get us too off track because I don't even need to circle back to you but I think it would be more difficult if we had dated for a period of time, to then like stop and be like okay, let's just be friends. I think that's a different thing. So, like early on. I'm not taking it personally because it's just like okay, it's not, we're just not a match, it's not a big deal Like there's.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I definitely. There's definitely a difference there, because somebody's probably hurt at that point.
Speaker 2:Yeah, exactly Like somebody maybe wanted it to continue or whatever. So what about you? So you already said that guys aren't like in general. What about you? So you already said that guys aren't like in general. Do you feel like guys are out looking for friends or open to this type of thing? Well, I think guys.
Speaker 1:I don't think guys are running around and again, I'm not speaking for women because I'm not a woman but I just don't think guys are in the most part running around looking for women to be friends with. For a lot of reasons I think men, just like women, have complicated relationships with men.
Speaker 2:Men have complicated relationships with women, and I'm just talking about straight men and women here yeah it's obviously you can well, because there could be what you mean because of an attraction, because of our relationships with women I mean so we've all in.
Speaker 1:Particularly in your 40s, most men have broken up, have had multiple relationships. Some are good and some are bad, and I think at the end of the day, it's easy for men to just say we're men are from. What is it men are from?
Speaker 2:mars and women are from venus, or whatever it is like yeah, yeah, we're different, right.
Speaker 1:So do I want all my friends to be women? Fuck, no, like I want the majority of my friends to be men and that is that's healthy for me. But I do think having a woman in your life as a very good friend is that's not your wife or whatever is a really interesting. It just gives you this really interesting perspective Women have you know, women are better at listening, so I think this kind of came with my therapy. Probably is like I had this ability to I have this ability to communicate on a better level, so that I think that I have.
Speaker 1:I love communicating with women. There's Justine, too, is our friend, and Kayla, our new women friends in my life and, like I, didn't have this sort of ability to communicate with women the way that I can now, I guess, except for like my wife or my girlfriends at the time, and I didn't even have that, I mean, and there's a reason why I'm divorced. Not all my fault, but I can tell you that I wasn't not guilty in my failed relationships and over my life.
Speaker 2:Do you have questions for you? I do, I think it's.
Speaker 1:I think you have to. I think for a man to be good friends with a woman where there's just you're just friends, there has to just be an understanding, there has to be a level of communication, because you got to match women's ability to.
Speaker 2:women are just better at communicating, not all women, I'm not saying all of them, but I'm saying yeah, not all women have a better potential to communicate.
Speaker 1:Men tend, because of how we're raised men are raised to suck it up and be men and don't share your feelings and blah, blah, blah and like. When you realize that's not necessarily good and start to communicate, then I think that's you'll invite female friendships into your life do you have other?
Speaker 2:okay, so you just mentioned a couple of the ladies that you're friends with, but do you feel like you have? Do you feel like you're fairly open to that or like what at the sorry, I'm like stumbling on my words but do you feel like that's something you are open to like when you come across the right, right person?
Speaker 1:well, I mean I just love all people. So I think again. I'm not running around looking for female friends. I think I'm good, but I'm not like. I'm not like. Good people are good people.
Speaker 2:I'm not going to not develop a friendship with somebody that they're good.
Speaker 1:If I find myself in all my friends, which isn't the case I just got got back from I have some of the most wonderful male friends in my life and I'm definitely like trying to sign up more like I'm for all you male listeners out there that if you're not encumbered with families, like definitely looking for a wing man uh, I try to be your wing woman, but it doesn't work well, I met a guy at the bar last year and I thought we were gonna be besties and uh, I think he got weirded out Cause I kept being like, hey, man, let's hang out, like like, come on, let's hang out Like I and I think it's.
Speaker 1:I don't know what it is. Ben, are just weird about that and, like certainly, Okay, so I have.
Speaker 2:I have one or one in particular it's coming to mind that I keep wanting to introduce you to, but he is married and has a child, but I think you two could actually be really good friends. My thing is just I, just so I think you need to be more open-minded to people with kids.
Speaker 1:You guys and your families. You just got no time. Why you?
Speaker 2:got to be so judgy? No, I'm just kidding. Okay, so do you feel like you would have been open to having female friends at a younger age, or do you think some of this?
Speaker 1:is coming with maturity. I think that the majority of the female friends in my life when I was younger I wanted to be with romantically and I think I realized I couldn't or that wasn't an opportunity for me and I got put in the friend zone. But I stayed friends with them.
Speaker 2:It wasn't like the whole friendship I want to be with them, but that's where it started.
Speaker 1:Attracted to them, yeah, so all you females out there, so that it is a little bit true statistically. I think if you have a male friend in your life, particularly if you're younger, that man probably wanted to be with you at some point. I'm a big enough boy to know that. Like all friendships start in different ways, ours started with just because nobody's out there. Men just aren't out there looking for yeah platonic.
Speaker 1:We just don't start with hey, I want to be like friends with you, like yeah we just don't and I think maybe you can convince me otherwise, but I think that is a fact is I think that I just don't think a lot of men, straight men, are running around looking for female friends now, but I also think that 50 of the population is a different sex and, like smart people, just don't turn down friendships and friendships are friendships and love is love, and love in your life is something.
Speaker 1:If that you don't turn down, so it's okay to be friend zone and it's okay to accept a new friend, and that's as long as it's healthy. Like I know that there's men and women out there that will use the other party and it's not a healthy platonic friendship and definitely had I've definitely been subject to this is when you're a lot younger, subject to very manipulative women that don't really understand where they put the man, and I think that's so why don't you tell me about that, because I think you, I'm sure you have experience with this maybe not yourself, but I'm sure you've seen it as a woman with your girlfriends, particularly when they're younger.
Speaker 1:Like this whole, like using men or knowing. I'm sure you've been in a conversation where like he loves me but like I'm never going to fuck him.
Speaker 2:And like tell me about this, because I know that this happens particularly with younger women. Or tell me I'm wrong, I guess you're. I don't think you're wrong, I do think that happens. I don't think it is always like malicious. I think there is like ego, parts of even women that enjoy the attention, especially if you're not in a relationship or getting having success like dating. There are times that you kind of lean on some of the male friendships or just getting at least I do. So I can only speak for myself.
Speaker 2:But I was laughing, my friends were in town and I said something about a male friend of mine from back in the day and saying, like I want I don't know, it was something I actually I was telling them about, talking that we were going to do this topic, and she was like like all the guys that you were friends with wanted to be with you and I'm like what are you talking about? So I'm also a little oblivious at times. I also don't think that they all wanted to be with me, but but there are some that I knew did and I made it very clear I didn't like I never wanted to lead them on like that does. That feels icky to me so like we were friends, but I tried to like be respectful of the fact that I knew they. They probably wanted more and didn't like try to abuse that. If that makes sense like they're my friends, so why would I want to abuse that? And yeah, so what about?
Speaker 1:there's an ant on your white.
Speaker 2:Oh my god, shut up.
Speaker 1:It's right there, where it's right there.
Speaker 2:What the fuck? Oh my gosh, why I?
Speaker 1:just saw your face. Oh my gosh, we're going to have to take a temporary break here to kill an ant. I can hear it screaming Don't kill me, don't kill me. I've got a family. I've hear it screaming Don't kill me, I got a family. I got a family. You just killed my daddy. You just killed my daddy. Where did it come from? I don't know. I just lost my co-host to an aunt. Come back, come back to the Midlife, uncensored. We have things to talk about. Where did it come from the aunt? We have things to talk about it's dead now.
Speaker 2:There was one on the door like crawling on the inside of the door earlier I don't know if they find their way in I don't like. I don't like bugs. That makes me feel really weird, because we're on the second floor. Why are there? No, I don't like this. I've been gone for a week. Is there an ant problem in here?
Speaker 1:it's probably these halloween steps you put in there, yeah, probably we're so pampered, us modern, I'm sorry I always scan a room there's whole civilizations that live among the bugs.
Speaker 2:I always scan rooms for spiders, especially when I home.
Speaker 1:But I didn't think I had to worry about. I've never had ants in here.
Speaker 2:Okay, two ants in one day that might be a problem. There's probably more where that came from Great, okay, so we've established that.
Speaker 1:I'm Spugs that ant is dead. It was not friend-zoned. It's about to crawl back out of the sink now, so just to uh bring you guys back up to speed, since it's been a couple minutes. Uh, we have established that, yes, men and women can be friends, that most likely the relationship started with one of the other people liking them I think in our case we didn't even we didn't necessarily get that far, but we definitely went on a couple of dates and then decided so.
Speaker 1:But like yeah, all my girlfriends in my life came from, for the most part came from who aren't like my friends', wives or girlfriends. Came from me wanting to be with them at some point. I think there's ways you could meet people or them wanting to be with me.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you could be through like school or work or something like that, like you might meet someone who maybe you didn't have that initial like same type of attraction, like you might have like just gotten to know them in a different way, and so there could still be an attraction, but maybe not a physical attraction or whatever.
Speaker 2:But yeah, I don't disagree with you. I think in general, like even female friends, and I'm not attracted to women in that way but like I think there is still some type of attraction you need to have to that person, whether it be personality or, you know, physical attraction or something that you click with. And I think the same can happen with men and with and I think the same can happen with men and then especially if I think you can be drawn to somebody if you're physically attracted to them. So now, what would you say is sort of the recipe, for I have so many other questions, but what do you think is like the recipe for going down that path? I mean, you and I are both singles, so we don't have to worry about a significant other. I think we also need to get into, like, how to handle that aspect, like yeah, that's definitely on the list.
Speaker 2:And so what do you think, though? Like, let's leave, cause we're, since we're both single and that, like we can both speak to this. Like, what do you think is a good way? Are some things that need to?
Speaker 1:be in place for friendship to work. I think you have to be. I mean for any friendship. I think you need to be open and vulnerable and loyal and you need to communicate. I think it's not. I think it's just like to me, it's like any other friendship, except for there are different dynamics between men and women. We just live different lives. Just we have different things happening to our bodies, happening in our lives we, you know we're dating opposite sexes or married the opposite sex.
Speaker 1:There's just differences, right. So opposite sexes or married the opposite sex, there's just differences, right. So we're friends because we care about each other and there's a real, there's a real. You know value to being, to having some close friends from the opposite sex, for sure yeah there's also complications because of because society just can't fucking handle it.
Speaker 1:Apparently they can't handle it. Even the most mature people just can't seem to like wrap their head around it. Uh, and it's sad because and I don't want to go into it we should talk about it. But, like I guess the next question is and we'd have to ask somebody, I guess that's in a relationship is like I don't think you start making fucking friends with the opposite sex when you're in a relationship. I I just don't think that happens, unless it's like it just doesn't happen.
Speaker 2:I don't think you're seeing. I think it would be hard to seek that out once you're in a relationship. I think there'd be like questions around that Like a new friendship.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I mean, that's a whole nother I guess topic, but you know again like work situations or whatever, but they're talking about yeah, there are new because you and I haven't had to deal with that yet I know, well, let's talk about, let's go first into, I guess I'm thinking, even without a significant other, well, well, you still haven't answered how women get into relationships with men.
Speaker 1:What are women doing? Are you looking for male friends?
Speaker 2:I have always had a lot of male friends. I just appreciate less drama. So I used to not have as many female friends and over time that has changed. I have a lot of both. And I think too, there's like some uncomfortable situations that can happen with male friends that, like when they do want more. So like I actually have a lot of gay men in my life because I feel like that is also like it's a nice way to get some testosterone in my life and I don't know whatever. It's not like I like specifically sought that out, but it's a really easy low drama, no questions way for me to have men in my life that a significant other isn't going to question, but they're just people. So it doesn't really you know whatever. But I've always had a lot of men in my life and this is probably the time I have the least amount of male friends, even though all those that sounds weird, cause like all those men are still my friends.
Speaker 1:I just like, like we, I moved out of ohio, so how many male friends you have in your life that are straight?
Speaker 2:well, when I was in ohio, there was a group of like five or six of us that and I was with them every day of the week and they were all straight of them started.
Speaker 1:How many of them do you think wanted to have sex with you at some point? All of them.
Speaker 2:Not date me. I don't think they all wanted to date me. I think they all probably wanted to have sex with me. Maybe not, no, I don't know. I think they would.
Speaker 1:I don't know if they sought it out, but I think they would if the opportunity presented itself. A couple of them did. A couple of them did, like women, wave along. A couple of them did Friend zone. I don't know Friend zone. You're in the friend zone, you're in the friend zone. There was one that no one there in the friend zone, by the way, we know exactly when we get put in that fucking corner. It's funny.
Speaker 2:Whatever that's funny, well, I mean, it happens to us too.
Speaker 1:It's true. So this is how these friendships, I guess, happen.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so the other? Uh, what the fact? What the heck?
Speaker 1:Or you already dated them, or you already were with them, like I'm friends with my ex wife, and that's probably worth its own episode.
Speaker 2:Um the bring her on and talk about that. You should um.
Speaker 1:I lost my train of thought um what do you think?
Speaker 2:no, shut up I'm just kidding oh my god, don't do that to me. I'm already on edge. You can see that I'm already scanning I keep scanning for the fuck, I know, but it's more of, if you like.
Speaker 1:Now, I thought this was an aunt all right, I'm sorry, come on, come back to me, let's go jesus christ, don't do that to me.
Speaker 2:What do you think is gonna be gosh?
Speaker 1:what do you think's gonna be the recipe for, like when you start dating somebody, to like maintain a friendship with me specifically, so I've thought about this because I've definitely been on dates with women where I bring up the podcast and the female co-hosts and you know I don't try to bring up my ex-wife and my relationship with my ex-wife but like women tend to love to ask questions about your divorce and stuff. So I'm just like I'm honest, I'm like, yeah, it was very amicable and I'm still friends with her, and my answer is really like friends with my ex-wife is different than friends with emmanuelle.
Speaker 1:Like my ex-wife and I aren't like fucking hanging out, we're not besties, we just we, we talk to each other sometimes and we're like we share some sort of connection. We were fucking together for a long time, but anyway and I don't know, but there are definitely women that are out. I had one girl one time ask they're out about.
Speaker 2:What About our friendship?
Speaker 1:They're out on dating, going on a second date. I had one girl tell me one time that my relationship with basically with you and my ex-wife was a terrible start to the foundation of a relationship.
Speaker 1:She literally told me this she was a lot younger not young enough where she shouldn't have been mature enough, but she was in her early 30s and I was was like, okay, but the majority is, I mean, this is a really good filter for me, by the way, because it's like. Then there's the other women that are like I think that's really great that you're still friends with your ex-wife, that you're. I think it says a lot that you're having an amicable divorce. I love that you have a podcast and you're friends with this girl, manuela, and I'd love to meet her someday.
Speaker 1:Yeah but I also think that it's natural for any human being to want to ask questions. I think if I got serious with a girl, they'd probably want to really figure it out, and I think that's a matter of getting to know them. And then I also think you and I do a lot of stuff together. We go to parties together, we like go out to the bar, I think also like if either one of us got serious with somebody like that, time's probably gonna get reduced because yeah, absolutely we're gonna want to be with our person and this and that.
Speaker 1:So like I haven't not thought about this stuff, but I think my real response is like no fucking way that I'm going to particularly somebody that I don't know. I'm always going to choose my friends over stranger.
Speaker 2:You know, I know, I just I think that makes me kind of sad it makes me kind of sad that that is happening, but at the same time maybe that's like you said it's a good filter.
Speaker 1:Maybe there's a lot of people that have been cheated on in their relationships, and I don't believe that the new partner should have to deal with that.
Speaker 2:That's not your responsibility, but it's a reality. Okay, so for me, I think the recipe, the recipe is number one. You and I need to have enough respect and sort of like for each other and for the fact that and respect for each other's like relationships which I have no doubt that we do, because I know you, as, because I just know you like that's something that I wouldn't be doing this with you if I didn't think that because, like it, just at some point we're going to end up in relationships and it is you might, I don't know about me.
Speaker 2:Well, you are. But the thing for me too is, I agree we all have like baggage. I think it comes down to having difficult conversations with people, having boundaries, trust, respect, like all these things. It's just going to come with time. You know that I don't know like I hope that I I don't know that it's going to be like easy. When that does happen, necessarily, I think it's just going to take some like time and probably time of actually like I know I'm happy to be like open and spend time with whoever it is that you're dating, for them to get that level of comfort with me and with our friendship. You know so and I don't know, I guess at some point it's yeah, if that's a deal breaker like it's.
Speaker 2:You know, there's other people in my life like that. I don't know. If there's a problem, then there's another problem, right. Like, if they have a problem with that, it's either they have things they need to deal with or there's something that they're not comfortable with and it's a bigger question. But my, I think you and I would be very like knowing who you are. So I don't want to speak for you, but like knowing who I am, I would be very transparent and very I don't ever want there to be an issue or a point where it's like you can't be friends with that person or whatever Cause I I know, but I would never want it to get to that. So I would go above and beyond to make sure that that doesn't happen for me or for you.
Speaker 2:And that's where I that's because I want you to have whatever relationships you need in your life. Like'm your friend, I want you to have all those things, so I'm gonna always support and make sure that I go above and beyond to like have that that person has that comfort with me too so, yeah, I don't think we need to worry about that I think where this?
Speaker 1:stuff breaks down and this goes back to the beginning is I think that I'm pretty confident that whoever we end up in relationships with will have the mental acuity and the emotional EQ to. It's not, it's a non-issue, right? Yeah but it's everybody else, it's the, it's the girls, my girlfriend, let's just say my hypothetical girlfriend, all her girlfriends being like he's got this show with, like this girl and they must, they dated at one point and blah, blah, blah. Like you're okay with that, you're okay with that.
Speaker 2:Or like guys being like dude it's about honesty it's about yeah, fucking, be be honest, be a fucking adult, right, like I don't know, like so do all our friends like, or these people like, stop being.
Speaker 1:I get it. I know the knee-jerk reaction, but think about the shit before they come out of your mouth, because ruining people love drama, right, people love drama, and I just think it's. Like I said, it's been very interesting to me how much even people that are very smart and good friends of mine, how I don't want to throw them out of the bus. They're very innocent comments, but the reality is, and I told my one friend, I was like I got it, I get it, man, like I get it, but like it's not just your comment, it's everybody's comment and it's all the time. And so like the reason that I'm getting frustrated with you is because it's not just you if it was just insulating cock, blocking you.
Speaker 2:This is cock I'm so sorry if it is what's cock blocking? I don't know. Our friendship us? No, it's not cock blocking.
Speaker 1:I think that I'm preemptively trying to get ahead of. I'm trying to, I'm trying to make the people that are saying this stuff aware without making them feel bad. Is this like look, get some awareness around this, because because one, I'm single and I'm alone and I'm I don't have kids, I don't have a wife, I don't have a lot of things distracting me, I don't have a lot of friends to hang out with, right. So, first of all, like I don't want anything. I don't want this external noise to be impacting my friendship with somebody that's very close to Right. And then I'm also like, if I do end up getting into a relationship with a girl, I don't want any of this noise. I don't want people to plant that seed in anybody's head. I guess I've just been very surprised at how hard it is to be friends with somebody of the opposite sex. It's like there's 50, there's 8 billion people in the world, 4 billion of which are female, 4 billion of which are male.
Speaker 2:I understand what you're saying. Well, whatever the yes there are, I'm with you and I've gotten the question quite a bit. I don't think it's been as much as you have, or at least when I've been on, like dates, they don't really question me yet. I also don't really offer up too much. I say I have a podcast, like so they could find it really easily. My name's not hard to Google and find the podcast, but I, the people that I know have listened, have actually said they they enjoy like the banter and the, the conversations that we have. They probably are questioning it, being a man and knowing I don't know, having probably a similar perspective that you do that that around us.
Speaker 2:But I think it just. I don't know.
Speaker 1:I've dealt with uh, I've dealt with jealousy issues in the past and I think that it's not happening as much as you, as maybe it sounds like, with my emotions around this and how heightened I'm getting about it, but I think I've dealt with jealousy issues and just about every one of my relationships and I hate it.
Speaker 1:So you're maybe a little sensitive, so I'm like I'm a little, I think, to me I'm like a little preemptively upset about what I know is going to happen when I get into another relationship, and that's not fair, because I haven't been in a relationship over the hill yet.
Speaker 2:Yeah, so don't be defensive about it, because that can also be. I don't know like. I don't imagine that you are. I can imagine on some days you might be, if it's like, if you've gotten that comment several times in a row or something. But I had a friend for a really good friend of mine from college and he was so funny when he was dating. He was like I think he said to me by the third date he always tells the girls about our friendship. Because he was like yeah, because you're not like going anywhere and they need to be OK with it.
Speaker 2:And it's interesting because even the male friends that I do have who are married now there is definitely a shift and it is totally OK because I'm respectful of their marriages and the fact that there's probably questions around our friendship as well, and so I go out of my way to build a friendship with their wives and to be respectful of the interactions that I have with them so that there is never a question because I don't want them going anywhere in my life either. You know like, so that means less interactions or whatever. It is right Like or. And then new people in my life like that are in relationships. It's definitely I go out of my way to make sure that when we're doing stuff, it's together with them and their significant others, so that I don't ever want there to be an awkward moment or someone questioning my intention around that. So I just kind of go out of my way to give that like reassurance, because there are.
Speaker 2:Look, everybody fucks up Sometimes. People make shitty decisions, good people do shitty things and men and women are attracted to each other Like shit happens. So I think it's more about like being honest and building trust in a relationship and obviously people have had trust broken, but it's more sometimes. It's then scary when, like I could imagine if somebody had a pass of like being cheated on and I'm dating them and we have this friendship and they're listening to our banter and they can hear that you and I are BFFs and we're having a good old time, we're enjoying single life together and doing shit together and all this stuff right, that they might be like well, at some point are they going to develop feelings for each other or whatever, right, and I mean it's a fair question for anybody to have. I mean, we're all fucking human Right.
Speaker 2:So, like, I think it's just more about having a foundation in your relationship and having appropriate like boundaries and respect for each other and building that trust over time. But it's scary. You have to be like very vulnerable and like trust yourself to go through Cause. The only way you can build that is through experience. Like people can say, like this is the whole action speak louder than words. I can tell you one thing, but until you see it or experience it like, you're not gonna trust me and that's okay. Like that's why I said I will go above and beyond for the person I'm with, for myself, for our friendship like, and for whoever you're in a relationship with, like all of the things for myself, for us, like you and I, for all the people involved. Like that's important to me because I want, if I want, to maintain this friendship with you.
Speaker 2:I think that is a absolute like must-have for everybody yeah, I don't think it's even if you and I are single the rest of our lives, like it's still an important thing for you and I to have that respect for one another, you know yeah, I think it really.
Speaker 1:I think it's a non-issue. I think the people that we bring into our lives and the people you bring into your lives. If it becomes an issue, there's a different issue either in your own relationship where you're not you're not providing the security that your person needs, or your person's got some issues that are residual from something else that needs to be worked through, that you should, that you need to address. You can't just. I dealt with jealousy issues, I think, the wrong way in my past relationships where I didn't deal with it right.
Speaker 2:Or in what way would you feel comfortable elaborating?
Speaker 1:My, my position was always if you cheat on me, we're so I never, I've never, you never, worried about. I mean, I have always. Every single person ever been in a relationship, every woman ever been in a relationship, had guy friends. I think that's pretty typical and I was friends with them. I'm still friends with some of them and I knew if the guy liked her or and I knew if the guy didn't and was just a friend. That's pretty clear to me. I'm not oblivious to those types of things, but my position was always this is my person, they love me and I'm not going to worry about being cheated on and I'm. But I think I'm smart enough to know, and I think people know when this stuff is happening. So I just took that path because there's no way I'm going to like. I think if you're telling people who to be friends with and who not to be friends with and there's some real there's something else going on and either your relationship's not healthy or you're not healthy mentally.
Speaker 2:And because there's no reason in the sense of like needing to do some work on on healing right, like you said, if you're not allowing your person to be friends, particularly with existing friends.
Speaker 1:It's one thing to like. If I'm in a relationship with a girl, I'm probably not going to go out and grab new girlfriends right and be like oh look, I just met this. This girl at the library or wherever you go. I met this girl when I was out with my guy friends and like we're going to be friends now, Like that's probably not going to fly.
Speaker 2:Right so.
Speaker 1:I think that's more than healthy to tell your partner Like I don't appreciate you going out and finding girl like friends of the opposite sex, but like, but if they're like you're, if you become really good friends with like your friend's wife and they're like your sister, like my friend james his cory. He's been with cory since like 2004. Like she's like my sister, right, yeah yeah, so I have girlfriends in my life that are of my, that are my friends, partners. That's different than what we're talking about, right?
Speaker 2:so I think there's also just respectful ways to be. You know, and I don't I don't think we need to spell it out but it's not like you know, if you're in a relationship like you and I aren't doing certain things like that we might like. It's not like you and I are going to go out all night and you're going to come home like super late or whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, like there's certain things. I mean, we're not even really doing that now anyways, like so, uh, definitely not the slumber parties, but like even like just come or like going to Italy with you and leaving my girlfriend behind.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like I get it like that's not something.
Speaker 2:I remember a guy was dating and he was like oh, I have a girlfriend I travel with every year to go to Mexico, and he was like I could tell he was like very defensive of it, like the way he said it, and I was just like, yeah, okay, the way he presented it made me question it Right. And it was just like yeah, okay, sounds good.
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:I was just like not cool dude. It would have been a different thing if it was like oh, we can all go together or whatever. But like that was not, it was like a very defensive like I'm not changing that, this is something I've done. It was just like okay, I think we're good.
Speaker 1:Yeah, there's absolutely nothing wrong with setting those boundaries with your partner I mean even with it. Just the reality is and we both, we just talked about this 30 minutes ago is that if either one of us or both of us gets into a relationship with somebody else, our dynamic is going to change a little bit. Our friendship's not going to change.
Speaker 2:It's just we have to be respectful of our people and it's also comes down to probably not gonna go to.
Speaker 1:Lake Como with you, by myself.
Speaker 2:I'll bring my girlfriend. Well, duh, you could always do that.
Speaker 2:The reality is, if I'm with the right person and you're with the right person, we're all gonna become friends anyway, so it's not I don't even know that it really changes that much other than from a time standpoint, because the the end of the day, like our friendship is very respectful and there's nothing that we're doing now that I wouldn't do if I were in a relationship Like there's. No, it's just that you might have less time cause you're spending it with someone else, but then I expect you to be going on double dates with us, yeah, so so we're so did we answer the question?
Speaker 1:So we, so did we answer the question? So yes, guys and girls can be friends.
Speaker 2:Or not it's complicated or not it's complicated.
Speaker 1:Sometimes they're yeah, they can be, but sometimes it's one-sided. But it's all about open communication and dynamics are a little different than same-sex friendships.
Speaker 2:I was going to say some of the things. I think to have a successful friendship with the opposite sex is just having some respect and transparency and I don't know trust and respect with the partner. If you have one, so you know they're yeah. But yes, you can be friends and to all of our listeners, who are our friends.
Speaker 1:There is now no excuse for you to ask us the series of questions you have asked us or want to ask us. No, we're not together. No, we're not fucking. No, we're not going to fuck and we're not fucking. No, we're not going to fuck and we're not going to get together. We're friends and we're going to keep building our friendship and just like ignore, like that, just deal with that, yeah it's all good, we're defying things.
Speaker 2:Wait, I have a new game.
Speaker 1:I think we should try oh, you're gonna throw a game.
Speaker 2:I mean I'm gonna throw a game at you.
Speaker 1:It's just because am I gonna be able to handle this one? I think so. I want to say my mom didn't like it either.
Speaker 2:I want to say no. I think she might like this one. You know you're over the hill when, oh, look at you, I like it so give me something, because I feel like there's a couple situations that have happened since I know you're over the hill when you shave that three-inch hair off your ear and it grows back four inches the next day Shut up.
Speaker 1:You know you're over the hill when.
Speaker 2:When you can't get your email technology to work. We were just bantering about this on the recording that didn't record.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we need a 20 to figure out.
Speaker 2:Yeah, man, I don't feel like I'm old, but there are times that I'm like I'm complaining, I hear the words coming out of my mouth and I'm like, damn it, no, I'm not that person. Like I have or I'll see. Like, for example, the threads thing came out with. That's like a. It's a spin-off of um instagram or whatever. I don't know, because I haven't gone on it.
Speaker 1:You just found threads.
Speaker 2:No, I found it, I downloaded it, but I haven't gone on it because I don't want to figure out another fucking social media thing you don't.
Speaker 1:It's stupid Like even Twitter.
Speaker 2:There's a point where I'm like I'm just kind of done, Like I don't need it, but I don't want to be that person that's stuck on Facebook or MySpace.
Speaker 1:Oh, no, okay, I got one then. Okay, yeah, I love that. By the way, we're going to do that now.
Speaker 2:Yeah, at the end of it, you know you're over the hill.
Speaker 1:And then the other one is do you remember when?
Speaker 2:Ooh, do you remember when? Oh, my God, do you want to kick us off, though, because I might need a second to think about this?
Speaker 1:Do you remember when all the parents used to smoke in the living room and you'd just play in a cloud of cigarette smoke?
Speaker 2:Oh my God, yes, and the cigarette smokes in the bar.
Speaker 1:We talked about this on an episode I was at Governor's Tavern the other day with my date who's younger than me, and I was like I remember when you could smoke in this bar, and she looked at me like what, what? She wasn't so young that it's creepy, but she was, yeah younger, and young enough to never have experienced smoking in a bar I, I also remember.
Speaker 2:Well, obviously, okay, do you remember what? Did you ever have a pager?
Speaker 1:I did, because I sold pot. I did too, oh shut up.
Speaker 2:How about like all the codes we used to use with the? Numbers Like 911, where you'd like try to spell something in the numbers.
Speaker 1:Oh my God, All I got to say is but back before cell phones and all that stuff we all like hunt out more. There just wasn't an option. I don't know how I still have to. It was like some kids would always be at certain people's houses, right, so they had to call five houses and a hundred people would show up at a party.
Speaker 2:It was weird well, the other thing is I'd be driving we're so much more social without social media I'd be driving around town and I would just like be like driving by a friend's house and I'd have an extra 30 minutes to kill, so I'd like pull in and just knock on the door and shoot the shit for 30 minutes or something.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you don't do that shit now well you knew, everybody was either by, whether all the piles of bikes were or the cars that's so funny but like safe stuff, we got safe stuff. We gotta do this every week 99 cent gasoline 97 cents in 1999. I remember that yeah I worked at a gas station yep this is gonna be good.
Speaker 2:I like these. You know you're over the hill when and what was yours Do?
Speaker 1:you remember when.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:All right With that. The Sasquatch is out. I think this is a good one. Yeah, Bye.
