Midlife Uncensored
Midlife Uncensored-Real Life Discussions from Over the Hillis the no-holds-barred podcast you didn’t know you needed. Hosted by Joel Poppert, aka Poppy—the friendly Sasquatch with an epic beard—and his fiery co-host, Emanuela Messineo, aka E, this show unapologetically dives into the chaos, comedy, and WTF moments of midlife. If you’re 35-55 and ready to embrace the rollercoaster of aging, this podcast is your new home base.
Poppy and E tackle everything from modern dating disasters in the hilarious sub-series The Love Laugh Lounge (the “festivus” of dating) to real-life shit like divorce, mental breakdowns, balding, sagging tits, and figuring out how to parent while still figuring yourself out and maybe dealing with an unhinged ex. With a blend of interview episodes and no-expert-needed banter (except when we bring on experts), these two cut through the BS and get real about midlife—no filters, no sugarcoating, just pure, unfiltered truth with a heavy dose of humor. Expect raw, relatable stories, unfiltered guidance, tough love, easy happiness, and a few episodes where the comedy comes from alcohol infused banter, because who give a fuck, right?
Whether you’re dealing with the joys of aging, trying to keep your sanity while raising kids, or attempting to find love in a sea of idiots, Midlife Uncensored has your back. Expect a few F-bombs, some belly laughs, and a whole lot of honesty as Poppy and E rip the band-aid off midlife and give you permission to thrive in this beautifully messy chapter. It's not just about surviving midlife—it's about unfucking it and owning it! This is your community; we are in it together!
Midlife Uncensored
Love or Loneliness: Navigating the Pressure to Partner Up
How do you navigate the complex landscape of love and loneliness in a world full of societal pressures? In this heartfelt episode of Owning Alone, we ask ourselves, why is it so challenging to balance the desire for connection with the need for independence? We discuss the internal and external influences that create psychological pressures to partner up, when maybe deep down we don't want to our we are trying our best not to partner up with the wrong person or for the wrong reasons.
Join us as we explore the shifting dynamics of relationships across different life stages—how motivations evolve from our twenties to our thirties and beyond. We delve into the importance of self-awareness, setting boundaries, and understanding our own insecurities and non-negotiables. Listener feedback fuels our discussion on the societal and familial expectations that shape our desires, especially when it comes to modern-day empowerment and independence, particularly for women.
How do you stay true to yourself amidst external pressures and societal norms to partner up? By sharing candid reflections on the fear of compromise and the excitement of revamping social meetups, we emphasize the necessity of balancing personal priorities with societal expectations. Our conversation touches on the liberation of solo living, the importance of strong friendships, and the value of being honest about your readiness for partnership. Celebrate the joy and freedom of single life with us, and don't forget to share your own stories on Instagram or via email—we'd love to hear from you!
How to Engage with Us
- Email us at joel@owningalonepodcast.com
- DM us on Instagram midlifeuncensored
- Follow Joel on IG jpoppert
- Follow Emanuela on IG emanuela5683 or accountability_with_e
Thanks for joining the Owning Alone community, I certainly appreciate you!
Hey y'all, you're listening to another episode of the Owning Alone podcast hosted by your favorite middle-aged Sasquatch, jewel Popper, aka Poppy, and Denver's very own Italian Unicorn, emanuella Messoneo. Welcome back, y'all. Thanks for chiming in. Before we get started, as always, I want to remind you to follow us on the Instagram at owningalone. Please share our podcast with your friends. Subscribe rate. It's super important so we can get more traction. We are growing, but if all of you guys share our podcast to a million of your favorite friends, we'll grow even faster.
Speaker 1:Again, I want to thank Hannah Bronswell for being on the last episode, the Love Laugh Lounge, and it's great to be here again today and we're actually in the Unicorn Lounge. Back to the standard Owning Alone podcast, and today we're going to talk about love or loneliness, navigating the pressure to partner up and all of the psychological stress that society puts on us around whether or not we should be in relationships, why we want to be in relationships, why we want to be partnered up or whether we should just want to fucking be alone. And if that's okay, I think I got that right.
Speaker 2:You just nailed it. I love it. My little fucking 20 a month robot that's changed my life. We did like an exercise at work last week and I'm pretty sure everyone used chat gpt because it was like everyone's was so close together.
Speaker 1:I'm using it, right now to do like the whole press release and everything around mark and i's new company. And it's just. It's unbelievable to me. I just like just feed it information to learn. It's not perfect trying to nail this out of the park. I got to raise about $8 million in two months, so I'm trying to get it right, but yeah. Chatgdp changed everything. It makes us. It's like having a fucking secretary.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I love it. How have you been?
Speaker 1:having a fucking secretary. Yeah, I love it. How have you been? I've been good. I just got over covid. My second round of covid wasn't as bad. The first couple days were worse but it went away faster. It just sucked because it fucked up my I had big plans to go to this thing this rafting weekend with my buddies called love fest and like trip out and raft and there were going to be girls and stuff that came off the like the what's the?
Speaker 1:no, my buddy's wife is one of those people that does the. What is the thing where you like climb up the ribbons and fucking. You know what I'm talking about? It's basically crazy ribbon dancing and ab shit.
Speaker 2:Oh gosh, I don't know what the term is. I know what you're talking about, though.
Speaker 1:It's crazy, they did it on the Middle Fork trip.
Speaker 2:Like it hangs from a ceiling, kind of thing.
Speaker 1:When they're on the river trips they tie them to trees and then they go up and down them and dance. It takes crazy like athletics. Oh yeah, seen it. His wife went down the middle fork with us years ago and we all got a chance. There's a picture of me doing it.
Speaker 2:It's super funny shut up so I missed all that.
Speaker 1:I I've been isolated for eight days and I got a bunch of housework done, but I'm like a little bit in the fog right now still because I just been I'm extroverted so like nobody. I haven't really hung out with anybody except for my dog, and my dog's not the most extroverted thing in the world you got to see me right before and after. Congratulations, glad you didn't get COVID and I hope nobody else got COVID from me, but pretty sure that I got it on the fucking plane ride back from Orlando, uh-huh it's a good guess with all the Disney World people.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did the math once you said that and I was like I think I saw you right after that, so I think you can hear me sniffling a little bit. I didn't realize I was sick, so I'm glad you didn't get sick, but yeah, no, I'm doing good.
Speaker 1:Just focus on work. And yeah, just just yeah, nothing exciting. How about you? You just got back from Boston, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah, I was in Boston all week and that was awesome. Celtics won the NBA championship or whatever that's called for.
Speaker 1:NBA. Yay, jens, yeah, I was there.
Speaker 2:I'm not either, but Was.
Speaker 1:Larry Bird there, I don't know.
Speaker 2:I didn't go to the game, I was looking at tickets, because I was there the night of the game and they were super expensive.
Speaker 1:So I didn't go. And Boston's expensive yeah.
Speaker 2:But I got to stay in the seaport, which is awesome. It's right on the water and lots of work stuff. So it was nonstop, which was good, and yeah, I think I saw you right before I left for that trip. So I was supposed to have a friend in town this past weekend. She was sick so she had to cancel. So I ended up having a weekend back to myself, which was really nice, and just did some stuff around town. Nothing like too crazy.
Speaker 2:It is nice to stay in town sometimes I've been trying to do more of that, so it's been good.
Speaker 1:I went to Home Depot wore a mask, mask like the old days and went and got a bunch of shit from home depot.
Speaker 2:I actually went there like my friend has the hot dog stand out front there.
Speaker 1:She has the contract oh really, yeah, you should stop there, give me a free hot dog no, you have to pay for the hot dog. They're not as good as they're. You have to pay for them they are very good though. I love hot dogs. Hot dogs are amazing. Yeah, yeah. Other than that, it's been fucking hot in Denver.
Speaker 2:It's hot everywhere now. Welcome to summer. I've been saying it's summer for the past month because it's been in the 90s here, but I am ready to get the paddleboard out and are you ready to go?
Speaker 1:Yeah, I you ready to go.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I'm ready to go yeah, we're gonna go this weekend if you're up for that I've got a friend coming in this weekend cool, so I've got some of that time, yeah, anyway. So that's it any dating downloads no, I've been off the apps. I told you on one date since then and no, I just I need a break. Sorry, I got distracted. I, I need it, you were away in weather.
Speaker 1:You wanted to tell me the story about the date.
Speaker 2:No, I got distracted because I left the TV on.
Speaker 1:Yeah, because there's giraffes on the TV. I know I got distracted. I was looking for the. I love giraffes.
Speaker 2:I was looking for the. I'm glad you like my new screensaver, because I just changed it for the summer months I usually have a different theme at different times of the year. So, yeah, I got distracted by that.
Speaker 1:And I was looking for the remote.
Speaker 2:Sorry, I'll turn it off.
Speaker 1:No, that's fine, we can keep it on. We can keep getting distracted by it.
Speaker 2:But no dating updates. I did go on a date after I deleted the apps and I just decided I'm just, I needed a break. Like I was like seeing somebody for a little while before that and I needed to. I need to regroup.
Speaker 1:So I'm in the. I'm in the like decompress it's.
Speaker 2:I have talked about this a little bit before, but I really genuinely put a lot into it. I want to get something meaningful out of it, so I try to show up for people that I'm spending time with or chatting with, so it can. There's just times I need to take a break, and this is one of them. So I also have had no free time. I mean that this past weekend I was actually somewhat relieved. I didn't have a visitor. It would have been great to have her here but I it just ended up being like good to be able to decompress after that long week of traveling and work stuff. So, other than that, it's been nonstop. When it's going to be that way for probably the next month or so Nice, I don't know. I keep assessing, though, like maybe this is when I should date when you're busy, when I'm super busy I think that you date when you want to date.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm, I was telling you before I I have zero desire to date. Now it just turned off like a switch. The last girl that I was dating, the car accident and then covid. I've had to cancel on her twice.
Speaker 1:I went traveling for three weeks and she like doesn't want to date anymore because I bailed on her twice, which I totally understand, and she was kind of the last girl I was somewhat excited to date go on a date with. And now I'm just kind of like I'm still on the apps and I'm matching people and chatting with them, but I'm just like I'm kind of ghosting them. I'm just I don't, I can't get there. There's a couple girls where I was like oh, I'll go out with you after I get done with this COVID and I don't know. It's a weird feeling. I guess it sort of transitions into this whole partnering thing. But I went from I just and I'm fine, like I'm like fine with the feeling, I'm fine with where I'm at, with just not wanting to date.
Speaker 1:But it's a big difference between now and three months ago where I was dating like three times a week and I was enjoying it, not that I thought it was going to go anywhere, but it's now I'm just fuck, I just don't even want to bring myself to go through the motions to do the thing and nobody on the apps is really exciting me, I guess, if the reason I'm still on there is if somebody comes along where I'm like cool, but I think I'm gonna try the two bird fit thing, I'm gonna try one of their events, start doing the meetup thing again and just maybe just doing, just see if I bump into somebody. But I'm not in relationship mindset at all and I'll put that out there I guess now, so that could change if I meet somebody.
Speaker 2:That company has the two birds fit.
Speaker 1:I mean I've seen them at the beer garden before oh okay. And they draw a crowd of reasonable people. It looks like, yeah, they're all into fitness. I'm going to be vain and be like reasonably good looking women. Yeah, I was going to say it's nice reasonable people. It looks like, yeah, I'm gonna be like, yeah, I was gonna say it's all.
Speaker 2:It's like a fitness based. So right after we did an episode and we were joking around about speed, plug city, as jared would say.
Speaker 1:Maybe if we plug them, they'll plug us oh, who knows, but they.
Speaker 2:So we were just in a random episode a few weeks ago I think we we were joking about speed dating and then I went for a walk around the lake and saw this sign. That was like I saw people doing I don't even know how to explain it Some kind of squats, but they were like like pressing on each other's hands while both doing a squat at the same time and I was like what is going on over here? So I look over. I was going to take a picture just because I was like it looked like a fun group of people and then I read the sign that was in front of them and it was this like speed dating for people who are into fitness and they have some like fun looking events. They do some like mixers and cycle classes. They did an orange theory one.
Speaker 1:I just want to go to the yoga, so then it's not weird if I'm sitting there just staring at their butts.
Speaker 2:Oh, of course you would. I think they do. They do a yoga. Do they do a yoga one? Yeah?
Speaker 1:They're having karaoke tonight.
Speaker 2:Um, they do yoga they do totally misplanned. I don't karaoke. It seemed like a big commitment. Do you karaoke?
Speaker 1:Fuck, yeah, I karaoke. I'm sorry, I don't know why.
Speaker 2:I don't know why I can't take that seriously. Can you like give us like a? No, I'm putting you on the spot.
Speaker 1:You gotta show up, we need the spot, you gotta show.
Speaker 2:We need music. You gotta show up, for that's funny yes, I have my classic songs.
Speaker 1:I also love dancing um yeah but I can't karaoke sober, that's not fun. I need to be like that's funny they have a good buzz yeah no, I'll carry.
Speaker 2:We should, yeah, we should, I don't know go to some of their events.
Speaker 1:Yeah, we should go to their events. No, not karaoke but, we should go to their events, we should do our own little mixer, or something or some kind of like you were doing a meetup group before.
Speaker 2:We should do a meetup and revamp it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I still think I got another three months on that purchase, so we should start a little group. Yeah, I guess it's summer so I haven't been putting myself out there as much. I've been buried in my work. I go in these little waves where I'm out there on the town meeting people, going to the bar myself, dating myself, and then I go in these little bouts where I'm like I'm really cool just being at home and doing my thing and I love my backyard in the summer. But I guess just a transition into love or loneliness, I guess the big question, I guess yeah you go.
Speaker 2:I was like can I read? Because this was actually something. It was a note that came from someone who listened to one of our episodes.
Speaker 1:You have listeners, we have listeners.
Speaker 2:I noticed that Some people do like to listen and then rate us and share with your friends, please. And give us feedback. Yeah, give us feedback.
Speaker 1:or give us ideas for upcoming episodes. It is really important.
Speaker 2:So this friend reached out when they listened to actually the first episode that we did and said that the whole concept of the people pleasing thing really resonated with him and I thought that was nice of him to share.
Speaker 2:But then he went on to ask if we could dive into this other concept and so I'll read it. He said how to best separate out the want to be partnered up versus a perceived need to be partnered up and fighting against some biological instinct that most people have to find someone to grow old with and then within the effort of owning your alone. So it got a little box kind of runs together at the end. But I think basically it was like how do you balance this whole effort to own your alone while still balancing this like desire to be in a relationship Like I think it's like a natural desire to be connected to people and also balancing this concept of needing to be in a relationship, whether that comes from like societal norms or maybe it's family pressure or friends or whatever that is. So how do we balance all those things?
Speaker 1:Good question.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know, I think that's about this over the last few days when we decided to pick this as a topic, like I've thought about, just like the fact that it really starts when we're like young kids, right, and I remember at some point when one of my nephews was I don't know, he was probably six years old and he was asking me why I wasn't married, and it was just interesting in that moment to think kids are told that's like what you're supposed to do at a very early age, and I don't know where that story necessarily came from, and then how they like deduct, apply that to every adult that they're seeing, and then eventually you apply it to yourself, right, like that's what you're supposed to do, but it starts at a really early age.
Speaker 2:So I think there's I think when you're battling these, like the need to feel to be in a relationship versus like the desire and then also just trying to be true to yourself and owning your alone, really, I think probably starts with like identifying those things you're telling yourself that came from somewhere else at some point along the way and then really unpacking what is it that you want, like reframing that.
Speaker 2:So you you said something just a couple minutes ago and I forget how you said it, but just reframing and establishing like your own priorities and your own goals for that, for yourself.
Speaker 1:I think you this is a big topic, so yeah definitely go over an hour on this, but I think that there's all these different vantage points to look at this from. So there's one, there's age right oh yeah there's situations. So I think that people that grow, people that grew up in rural communities or people that grew up with married parents or people that grew up with divorced parents are going to have different perceptions of the pressure where the pressure is coming from religious, cultural, all these different things playing out how we feel about this.
Speaker 1:And then there's the difference between age, right? So when we were younger, when we're in our 20s, as a male in my 20s, I didn't feel I didn't want to partner up unless everybody else was partnering up. So it was a group mentality, it was wanting to fit in. But the only reason I really wanted to partner up when I was in my 20s or in my late teens was to have a sexual partner. I wasn't looking for the desire to be in a relationship, blah blah, or to boost my ego, so there's a vanity part of it.
Speaker 1:Then you go into your twenties and thirties, and now it's this sort of societal pressure to get married, have kids. Your friends are doing it, it's a cool thing to do, blah, blah, blah. And then and I don't want to dissect all these right in the moment and then you get to this place where you and I are at, where it's like kids have passed us by, we're pretty financially stable, like we've got good mental health, and now partnering up takes a different form. And there's this different priorities, there's different characteristics, there's less need and for people that maybe aren't, there's just different ways to look at it.
Speaker 2:There's different reasons why we want to be partnered up or not be partnered up at different for different genders and different ages and blah, blah, blah and different situations, so let's just roll with with that as I'm listening to you, I think, because this is like a very broad topic and I think it's really the backbone to the whole podcast potentially, so we could certainly come in at it from different angles. Like several times, I think, what if you are? Obviously we're in the middle aged bracket oh gosh, i're in the middle-aged bracket. Oh gosh, I hate it. Just saying that.
Speaker 1:Medieval or middle. Medieval or middle.
Speaker 2:Yuck, it's okay, we're the mature ages now.
Speaker 1:Maybe sometimes we're in the don't give a fuck.
Speaker 2:Yeah, there we go.
Speaker 2:I think one of the things that could probably apply to anybody but I wish maybe I had at a younger age was like if I could give advice to someone who's a little younger that maybe still like if they want to have kids or have are facing some of that like biological clock type of especially for females obviously but I guess this applies really to anybody but would be to like really zero in and figure out what your insecurities are and address them like work on them, because that will help you go into a relationship a lot stronger and also make you confident enough to walk away when someone's not the right match.
Speaker 2:And then I think the other good thing and this will I'll tie this back because I'm rambling now but would be like really think about go through these experiences and figure out what works for you and what kind of future you want for yourself, so that you can establish your non-negotiables. If you can work through, I think, your insecurities and figure out your non-negotiables, then it makes it easier to balance all those outside pressures right, even the internal pressure of having desire to like connect with other people and to have an intimate relationship with someone. If you look at the bigger picture and you really want to connect, like on a deeper level. I think you it's easier to make those choices when you really know what you want for yourself, when you're not acting out of insecurities, because a lot of I feel like pressure yeah, I mean, I feel like a lot of that just comes from insecurities, though like at least for me it did, and it just makes me kind of sad.
Speaker 1:I think it comes from not knowing yourself, and that's a really tough thing for younger people. What I was gonna say just younger people, I think it comes from not knowing yourself and that's a really tough thing for younger people. What I was going to say just simply Younger people.
Speaker 2:I think that's like even older people.
Speaker 1:No, I guess definitely older people too, but you started this one with women and children.
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, so this desire.
Speaker 1:I was going to go back and be like first of all, make sure you want to have kids, because all of us society is always and will always put pressure on us to have families. You're always the odd one out when you're in your 20s and 30s and you're not planning to have children. Women or men, really think about whether or not you want to have kids, what it means to have kids, what it means to be with a partner and have kids, because it's not. I'm watching this now. I don't have kids, but I'm watching this go across our peers.
Speaker 2:And it's not easy for people and making sure that you have a good partner, the relationship is different.
Speaker 1:It's going to be different and there's no matter what, no matter how strong your foundation is, it's going to test the foundation. Having children and a lot of people do want to have kids but just ask yourself, be willing to ask yourself whether you want children or not, and then, if you do, when you're in your 20s, you're gonna have to make some sacrifices around you. Both partners are gonna have to make sacrifices and you're not gonna get. It's very rare to get the strong foundation textbook, romance, fucking rom-com with the partner and make babies with them and have this fucking glorified thing, readjust your expectations and then build a sound family, because I watch too many people that want all of this.
Speaker 1:and then they wake up one day and they're 40 because they were chasing unicorns and rainbows based off what they saw on social media.
Speaker 2:I think it's easy. Social media, I think it's easy. I remember a few times thinking about the person I was with at the time. Do I want to just go forward so that I can have kids and roll the dice on how it works out with the relationship? And, looking back, I'm glad I didn't do that. I knew that wouldn't have ended the way I wanted it to. But so if that is a driving factor, if you're like, yes, I absolutely want to have kids, just like you want to make sure that you're with the right person that you can like a true partner to because I we really hammer on the whole kids thing.
Speaker 1:But going back to the topic, was this sort of pressure to be partnered up right? So that's clearly one pressure that could be coming, having the expectation from society or your parents or your partner to have children, but let's talk about the societal pressures, about just being in a relationship in general, and let's, instead of trying to get all the age groups, let's just talk about ourselves ourselves because we're at this age, we're like we keep we're not society keeps fucking railing on us about being single when?
Speaker 1:and they keep seeing it and they keep asking I keep seeing the thing about why are good men and then you see the same thing to women why are good men single, right? And they're asking us they want men to respond to these threads and I read them and my fucking knee-jerk reaction is I'm fucking good, like I'm good right now. All of my needs and things right now in this moment in my life, besides sex, are taken care of and sex isn't important enough for me to throw myself into the wrong relationship or really actually right now, even just fucking go for it with somebody, because I I haven't found that person and I'm happy with where I'm at. It's way different than when I was younger.
Speaker 1:When I was younger, I just felt my was my ego playing into its society. My friends were all getting married and my friends were all coupled up and it bothered me right to the point where I'm like I should be in a, a relationship. I really should be in a relationship because I want to fit in, I want to go to the parties with my partner and blah, blah, blah, and I didn't have enough self-awareness to realize that it was okay to be the fifth wheel or the third wheel.
Speaker 2:Welcome to the club, yeah.
Speaker 1:And it still bothers me sometimes when I let my guard down.
Speaker 2:It does.
Speaker 1:It's not easy to be odd. It's not like I'm going to parties with a bunch of single people all the time. It just doesn't happen at our age. But I know it's right for me right now, but it is. There's a ton of pressure all the time. The world is for couples, it seems like from at least the way the algorithms play out, the way our parents were raised and our expectations from our parents and maybe our church. If you go to church I don't go to church, but people do or your work, do you think there's a I have a random thought for you here.
Speaker 2:You said society is built. Are you going to church? No, it's probably a good way to pick up women.
Speaker 1:I should go there.
Speaker 2:I don society you would be going to church. No, it's probably a good way to pick up women. I should go there. I don't know, give me a nice little christian girl recently. I recently had this idea that maybe there's a little bit of a conspiracy theory to actually keep us single, because think about how much more it fuels our economy to live on your own and to have to support yourself like having like the need for more jobs, because we're having to like support ourselves individually versus having two incomes having.
Speaker 1:But I definitely know that governments are based on growth and growth can't happen without procreation.
Speaker 2:It's very hard I get it when we're not procreating? How can?
Speaker 1:they create.
Speaker 2:I'm just saying I think there's a little bit of something around. If they keep us single, then I don't know.
Speaker 1:It's just a thought I've had recently, but I think that the reason that we're talking about this right now is because I think our generation we're the Oregon Trail generation, I call it we're the what are they?
Speaker 1:The Xennials, right, we're like Like that we play the game Gen X millennial we're old millennial, young, gen X, and we're the first generation to really challenge and embrace this idea of being independent, particularly women, and that's the. That's a big shift we're now. The reason a lot of people are ending up single is because a lot of people are liberated and women are liberated and women are like I make enough money, I can sustain myself. Why would I put myself in a situation that I don't want to be in? And I think men are doing the same thing and we're finding just in mental health as a thing, and everybody's just embracing this. And now we're asking, we're having this sort of conversation about fuck, societal norms. I want to do what makes sense for me, but I'm my but. All of my upbringing is challenging the way that I, the way that my body and my mind are telling me that I want to live right now.
Speaker 2:I think there were conflicting, if I think about like the way that I was raised and there were conflicting stories going on. So I I was telling you like I think it starts like when we're kids and where my nephew is asking me why I wasn't married. But I also, I think, a majority of my childhood my mom worked. My mom moved here as an adult from Italy, moved here as an adult from Italy, so English is her second language, and she met my dad after she moved here and my dad did the same thing, grew up in Italy, moved here, and both of them wanted, like, access to a different type of life. I think for different reasons, but type of life, I think for different reasons. So I can't imagine moving to another country and not speaking that language that well and then having to work my entire adult life. That would be really challenging. I think about. Okay, I have that option now I'm an Italian citizen, I could go move there. There's no way I would do that. I love Italy, I can get by speaking the language, but it would be that would be a lot Like I really have to give props to people that do that.
Speaker 2:I guess where I'm going with that is in line with that comes, you can do whatever you want to do, and this empowerment to be independent, to be educated, to be able to support yourself, that's like how we were all raised.
Speaker 2:And yet then still comes this old story that they were told, which is get married and have kids, and so I don't think people always realize what they're saying. It's really interesting because it comes out Like when you just sit back and listen to people talking, you can hear whatever it is that's going on in their head that they've been told, that they're reciting over and over in their own head. You can see it, and I have it too, but you can see it in other people, which is really cool, cause then I try to use that to pay attention to okay, what am I doing? What's that story in my head? So it's hard, because I think you're right that we, our generation, like at least for me, there were conflicting stories potentially happening and at the end of the day came choice right, I could go this way, I could go that way, and I suppose either one was okay or whatever.
Speaker 1:But you still have this question mark of did I do the right thing or should I have done it this way or I don't know I want to try to put my, but I think we should take a moment to put ourselves in the shoes of people that aren't necessarily as self-aware or done the work because I think that this, this lack of partner how long somebody's gone without a partner, what their mental health status is, what their situation is you could be the one single person in a rural community and that could have very serious psychological pressure on your mental health.
Speaker 1:I don't want to dwell on the negatives, but I also don't want to disregard the fact that people that maybe people that are listening to this aren't as aware and empowered and have the tools or the mental health foundation that we have, because even me and my weak moments I struggle with sometimes, where I wake up alone and I'm like shit, it'd be nice to have a partner. Now I'm only two years out of a divorce, so I still have some runway of excitement around being single, moving along. The fact of the matter is, society is putting a bunch of pressure on people to partner up, pressure on people to partner up, and they're trying their best to balance the desire to be partnered up with not partnering up, because they're sick of their mom and dad telling them to make a baby like so there's the point, right like we trying to.
Speaker 2:I think, part of it is we're trying to bring community around owning your alone, but that doesn't always mean it's easy and you might think that people are okay with it, but it's hard when you're receiving comments and pressure from people to be in a relationship.
Speaker 1:Yeah, you're constantly being pressured to be in a relationship. You're constantly outside of the norm when you're not partnered up. It's also like Particularly in your 30s and 20s and 30s.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I also think it's.
Speaker 2:If you think about it, it's so ingrained in us and I don't I I don't want to fault people that that do this with me at times, because I know that it comes from a place of caring and like inquiring about what's happening.
Speaker 2:I think sometimes, like people ask, like what's happening with your dating life or whatever, and so like I think it's, I think they it's similar to like me saying like how's your family, how are the kids, or whatever. So it's like an easy question to ask. But with that, like, there was a period of time I actually asked friends to stop asking me that because I felt like this pressure to have an answer and I didn't want to. Even if I did have an answer, I didn't want to share it because I was like it was way too early in the dating phase that I didn't want to talk about it because I didn't want people's input or I wasn't interested in someone at the time or whatever fill in the blank reason and I didn't want to have an answer and I was like I will tell you what. Like when I have something worth sharing, I'll share it with you, but otherwise can we just talk about literally anything Turning it around on our friends and family.
Speaker 1:We don't go up to them and be like how is it being married today? How is it being a father today? I mean, sometimes I do, I'll ask how your kids doing, and blah, blah, blah. The number one thing that my friends, that people that are in relationships particularly if I've been in one for a long time want to ask you is how's your dating life? Yeah, you know what? I got other things going on. Sure, sometimes I like talking about dating, but I don't like when it's very obvious that people are trying to vicariously live that sort of experience through me.
Speaker 1:Yeah because it's so normalized for me to date where I think I'm just going to turn around now and ask like how is it? How is it being married?
Speaker 2:Oh, don't get all pathetic, See. I think the other thing is, I personally I don't want to speak for you. I personally, in those situations when I'm frustrated and I get that question, I can get sensitive about it, and yeah, I just want to be like fuck off.
Speaker 1:It's fucking great. I dated 150 women in the last two years and I'm still single. How do you think it's going?
Speaker 2:And it's difficult sometimes to answer that question, and so I think what's more empowering is just having a witty come back to that or just something to just diffuse it. I like I said at one point I was like struggling with it. This was like years ago and I was like, just don't ask right now, I'll let you know when I am ready to. But yeah, so it's because it's not all on everybody else. But I do think it's hard Because with that question I think it spurs like those internal dialogues that we have oh, do they think I should be dating? Is there something wrong with me? Because I'm not, is there like whatever? And that's not it. They could be asking that because they know it's a part of our lives and they could genuinely just care about what's happening. Like just like somebody would ask what's happening with work, and there's times I'm like I don't want to talk about it and then we move on. But I don't get sensitive about it Like I do with dating sometimes.
Speaker 1:I got a question for you. So how does someone recognize whether or not a lack of wanting to be in a relationship is a reflection of truly just not wanting to be in a relationship in that moment, or some sort of wall, or I'm trying to figure out the right word for this where?
Speaker 1:yeah, you convince yourself that's your excuse for something else that's going on. Maybe you've been dating for a year unsuccessfully and you're just like I don't. You just want people to stop talking about it. You don't want to talk about it, you're embarrassed. You have all kinds of emotions around the defeat, the lack of success. What's wrong with you? All of these emotions? They get us all right. I even go through them and I'm like what the fuck?
Speaker 2:fear of failure is significant, and if you've, whether you've been married or not, or whatever it is we've all had some kind of relationship, history that has shaped us and sometimes scarred us in certain ways. So your question, though, was about if you don't have the self-awareness around it, what do you do? Well, how do you gain the self-awareness around it? How do you figure out?
Speaker 1:whether or not. How do you figure well, how do you gain the self-awareness around it? How do you figure out whether or not? How do you figure out what?
Speaker 2:you get. How do you start?
Speaker 1:how do you get your own? How do you like basically effectively tune out the external noise and figure out what own your alone? How do you figure out what it is for you? What do you want?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, okay, A couple things came to mind. What makes sense for you?
Speaker 1:And then own it right. If you've been struggling with the fact that you don't want to have kids, but everybody's pressuring you to have kids and you've convinced yourself you want to have kids, which is my story, how do you eventually get to this place where you fucking make that decision in the midst of all of your friends, baby showers and blah, blah, blah. And you should meet jack because he'd be so good for you and he's got good genes and you're like yeah when you're like bitch, I don't want to have kids.
Speaker 1:I realize I don't have kids. Stop talking to me about it, because it keeps changing my mind and it keeps going back. I just want to. I just want to hard.
Speaker 2:I mean, look, I am not sitting here saying that I have it all together or have all the answers with that, but I think for me, being the recovering people, pleaser, I had to stop asking everybody their opinion. So not only was I getting it unsolicited, but I was also asking for it and then trying to literally like how do I then do all these things that I think I'm supposed to do?
Speaker 1:One thing I've learned about the world is that you always will get people's opinions, so acid is like next level.
Speaker 2:It was like when I would get real confused about a decision, I'd call like a couple of close friends and then, man, you're getting all kinds of feedback and then your head starts spinning and probably I have people that I really trust and close people that I can call that are good sort of what I call like thought partners with me.
Speaker 2:Now, obviously, I'm a therapist, but I have some good people in my life that I can just like basically think out loud with and I'll either ask their opinion or not, or I don't really ask their opinion. It's more of like I ask for feedback so that I can learn from someone else that's seeing it. The other thing I me personally I learn from other people. So, like when other people share things with me or other people are going through something and they confide in me and they want to just like work through, like they want to think out loud with me. I learned from that because it's easier for me to see it in someone else and then draw some parallels to myself and then be like oh man, I need to take my own advice here. I think if you are unsure where to start, a good therapist is always a good place to start. If that's too much or not your thing. There's a ton of books or even podcasts out there that can be a good resource.
Speaker 1:I'm going to be really cliche and I'm going to say you're your best resource. No-transcript partnered up and not have a partner, but being strong enough to not partner up just because.
Speaker 2:It's also okay to struggle with all of that.
Speaker 1:It's very hard to find a good. It's very hard to get a relationship these days. It's just We've changed things, we fucked it up up. I don't know if it's necessarily bad or good, but I think the reality now is people are way less particularly people that are secure way less inclined to partner up just to partner up, and loneliness is a thing. Loneliness is a thing and it's a thing that everybody struggles with. It's a reason to embrace a partner. That makes sense. I hope I'm not sitting here in 10 years and I haven't been in some sort of relationship in 10 years. This is where I'm at right now, but I'm not saying that I couldn't be swept off my feet by somebody's tomorrow. I'm hopeful for that, but my eyes are wide open to what's okay and it's okay. We need to empower our listeners to just it's okay, there's no shame. There's no shame, there's no defeat, and all of that noise that's coming from society, from your parents, from, I'm going to say, the church again, just because it's fucking fun. Maybe I should talk about lawyers again.
Speaker 2:Oh my gosh, we like to just hit the same demographics.
Speaker 1:I'm sure your lawyer is not telling you to get married, but yes, society does put a lot of pressure on you to partner up and you put and it's not just society, it's you, we are the biggest influence in our own lives and our ego has put that pressure on us. Our it's just and it's egos put that pressure on us. Are it's just and it's and let's not fucking deny the fact that it's wired into us to be partnered.
Speaker 2:It's a survival instinct. Yeah, I was just gonna say so, like in, in that spirit, like how do you balance that need, that desire to have connection, while still like being true to those choices? Or, wherever you're at, if you you haven't found someone that you've you know connected with you're good being single, but like that you've you know connected with you're good being single, but like, how do you balance? How do you feed.
Speaker 1:That need for connection You've got my close friends.
Speaker 1:I got my podcast I got Manuela, my, my co-host, my special co-host. I, you know, but I I have a really good relationship with myself. I have a really good dialogue with myself. There's like another person there that I basically have a relationship with. That's me. But I'm very good at meeting people. I have good relationships in my life and I've found a way to satisfy my life without having to get into a relationship and that works for me through honesty and with people of the opposite sex that are in the same place, where we're openly talking about this thing, where we don't want to be in a relationship because we don't want to compromise. Right now. It's as simple as that. I do not want to compromise with another person, period.
Speaker 2:I want to travel. I want to move.
Speaker 1:I want to bounce around. I want the flexibility I right now. It would take a very extraordinary person right now to intersect with me and my journey to take to me that they're going to take that away from me, and I know that's probably not true, that there's. Everybody will tell you that they're going to enhance your life and blah blah, and I'm sure that's that can can be the case. It's right now. I'm running off in full transparency of fear that compromise impacts my life in a negative way and I have awareness around that and it's okay. If that's your thought process or something similar, or you've got your own thing that you've figured out and you have awareness around it, it's okay to think that that's where I'm at right now.
Speaker 2:And I think that's okay. I think you being honest with yourself about that is big, and I think there's a lot of I don't know. I just want to give you some kudos for that, because I think there's other people that just continue to go through the motions knowing that's where they're at basically a little bit unavailable, like. It sounds like to me there's. You might be a little bit unavailable to someone.
Speaker 1:I hate that word, though, because I'm so available to impact somebody's life in a meaningful way.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:And it doesn't.
Speaker 2:But you don't want it Like you don't, oh, I do want meaningful connections.
Speaker 1:I'm just not going to be like we all. We're all Like. All these people are out there looking for long-term relationships and they've been single for fucking years. It's yes, of course we all I would. I keep going back to this because I go back to it on the podcast all the time. I would love to have my partner.
Speaker 1:I'd love to meet my partner and share my life with them until we fucking grow old together. Of course I would. Everybody does. Everybody wants that person. Very few people have that person or have found that person, and good for those people that have found that person. And there's a whole lot of people that we know that have created really good foundations with people and made partners of them. It's just different. It's just different at our age. When you're a single and you don't like there's no kids anymore, you're just like why? To me it's the same and I maybe I'm just different. Single and you don't like there's no kids anymore, you're just like why? To me it just seems and I maybe I'm just different, I just don't. Aren't we sinks?
Speaker 1:running around out there trying to find a long-term partner without trying to just intersect and have meaningful connections with people to start with. That's, this is where I'm at. It's a different philosophy, and I find people that are in the same boat. It's not hey, I want to fuck you and never think about you again. That's not where I'm at. Yeah, I want to have a meaningful conversation with you, I want to intersect with you, I want to get to know you are. The odds of us being fucking in a relationship for the rest of our lives are super slim, just based on statistics in general. So let's like acknowledge that and then go from there and take all of this fucking pressure off of ourselves. And the knee-jerk reaction is you're just looking for. You're just looking for what is it?
Speaker 2:hookup you're just looking, blah, blah, yeah, isn't that like? I think it's. Yeah, online dating has definitely changed the landscape and some of the I'll say expectations around what's happening, the yeah, like just the stories I hear of what women expect after a first or second date, or sometimes even before you've been on a date, it's wow, I can't believe this. And then the same thing with I don't know it's. I think what's hard is people that are tunnel visioned into this, like I want a relationship, sometimes go a little over the top with when they see your profile. They start to create this idea of who you are in their head, versus if you just met each other out and about in real life, you wouldn't have these details of what type of job they have and what they're looking for in a relationship and how many kids do they have and what sign are they and how, what, whatever all the other freaking million options are that you can add to your profile, oh god, yeah.
Speaker 2:so I do think, though, like if we just go back to the to the topic of, it is okay wherever you you are on the spectrum, and that can change daily sometimes. But just if you need resources, you're like not sure where to start. A therapist, I think, is always good, or even just a good friend, but don't ask too many people for advice, because you're going to get a million different responses. So if you need help or need some awareness around something, ask someone that you trust.
Speaker 1:Certainly don't look to me to social media.
Speaker 2:We will help you.
Speaker 1:If that's your life being, you've trained your algorithm to own it's alone. The algorithm is always supporting my, my desire to be single Cause I've trained my algorithm. At this point I was thinking do you know the? What's her name? Abana? I think her name's abana and she's uh, she's the host of seeing other people seeing other people.
Speaker 1:She's a 20 late 20s dating podcast, jewish woman in new york and she's had a successful dating podcast and I used to listen to her chime in every once in a while and she's very meaningful to the dating scene. But also I just watched her over the last six months she got engaged and she just got married go through the fucking childhood female version of the childhood dream wedding and all of it and basically this could be you someday and hold strong. And that was a messaging I took from it, following her on social media and I know it came from a good place and she's still young and naive and if she was listening to me right now she'd be probably upset that I'm saying this, but she's don't. I'm sure this is gonna fuck up a bunch of women that are gonna grow past that and be like I'm now 35. She had the fucking thing and I did everything she told me to and now I'm still single and the psychological stuff's going to set in.
Speaker 2:It's no Comparison will always get you. It's not going to happen for all of you.
Speaker 1:It's not going to happen for you and all of you 20-somethings that got married in your 20s half of you are going to get divorced. It's statistically like true, and you're going to have to own it afterwards and be okay with it. And those that don't want to get divorced, you're gonna have to work not to get divorced, because fucking relationships are hard. There's a trade-off in being a relationship and I just think that social media is like creating what's. I don't want to start with divas, because I'm always like female, blah, blah, this and that. What is the alternative of a diva for a male? Or the opposite? What's the version?
Speaker 2:of a male diva.
Speaker 1:I have no idea diva, aaron rogers a fucking diva. But we have all this. We have men that are hating on women because of the women's expectations, and then we have women hating on men because of men's lack of whatever the fuck they're doing, and it's just the algorithms on social media love this shit.
Speaker 1:Boosting real estate the news media cycle loves the drama between Trump and Biden, which is completely irrelevant at this point, and, like I enjoy social social media, I like social media, but I also have this relationship where I can separate it and I read and blah blah, but like social media, I can. I can't imagine. I can't imagine what it's like for, let's say, you're, you do want to, you are feeling this pressure of being partnered up and blah blah. And then remember when we were in our 30s but social media existed and all our friends were getting married and having, and they're having, kids and blah, blah it's, and it was facebook. Remember instagram's? Better at not showing us.
Speaker 1:Yeah, my space, but like facebook used to be. The running joke was like it was all marriage pictures and children pictures and blah blah.
Speaker 1:And we went through that whole thing and I remember the pressure of wow, everybody's doing this. And I did it too. I got married and I just remember it was all over the place and this was everybody's doing and look at their kids and blah, blah, blah. And I imagine if that was the case now like my algorithm on Instagram doesn't show me that, or people don't post as much as our age, but I'm sure that the younger people's friends it's all over Instagram. They're seeing their friends get married and kids and blah, blah, blah.
Speaker 2:The pressure is probably even more, yeah, and I don't even know what the pressure. I don't know. Know what the pressure? I don't know necessarily what the pressure is for them. I don't know that they're being pressured into getting married necessarily or whatever, but there is still pressure and the amount of like kids that are coming out like coming out of high school with two years of worth of college credits and I think it's like great. It's just so different from when I was that age and we're not that far away, but far enough that I don't know what the impact is for them. But this applies for whatever the pressure is. It's like just take a step back and try to.
Speaker 2:If you're having a lot of stress or angst around something, try to just give it some space and figure out what it is that's at the root of it. I've gone through so many like self-improvement books and therapy and I did some life coaching stuff. There's like a lot of resources out there Some you pay for, some you don't, but there's a lot of good stuff and it's really just like a lifelong journey. So it's okay wherever you are at in the journey, wherever. Whatever you're feeling today, tomorrow is probably different. I think the biggest thing there was a point I was going to make. I don't know. I think probably the biggest tool with all of this is try to pay attention to things that make you feel a little insecure and try to work on those in whatever way to give yourself the confidence to navigate these situations. Because here's the other thing. This is the point I was going to make before, For as much as people ask how's dating going and all of that, there's all kinds of pressure for everybody, no matter where you are, and I know I feel like then, whenever I'm in a relationship, it's oh, when are you moving in together?
Speaker 2:When are you getting engaged? It's never enough Like when are you getting married? And when you get married, when are you having kids? When you have a kid, Are you having another one? Are you having another one? Are you moving? Are you where? Are they going to school? There's one, what is next? And it's jesus. Like I've actually, because, because of the awareness around, like how some of those questions have affected me, I've tried to be aware of what that looks like for someone else, because just because we're not the only ones that have pressure, or this topic isn't the only thing that has pressure around it.
Speaker 2:So I try to be really aware of friends that have just gotten married, not always asking what's the next step. Let them offer it, because you don't know what's happening to them and you also don't want them to feel like pressured into doing something they aren't ready to do just to appease the people around them.
Speaker 1:Yeah, maybe flip the script and tell your friends it's okay, I think. Remember first of all that the majority of the pressure that you're feeling is manifested inside yourself right it's, it's fueled by your own insecurities. The doomsday that I'm going to be alone the rest of my life. I'm never going to be my person old fucking hag or man that doesn't the cat lady, or whatever.
Speaker 2:Yeah, we're all going to be that way. Anyways, it's fine.
Speaker 1:And then tune out the noise that you can't turn the volume down on. And turn the volume down by communicating with the people that are creating the noise and just don't expect them to have the awareness that you want them to have. Communicate to them that you either would like to have a partner and you're struggling to have a partner, but you won't settle for blah, blah, blah, or that you're okay with where you're at and they need to like. They need to like like respect. That that's a decision you made. That's, and also like I also wanted to make a point I was thinking about before. Like we're very fortunate that we live now in a time where, like this is all right, this is accepted.
Speaker 1:There's a, there's communities that you can find of other people that, like don't want to be partnered up, that maybe are world travelers or like super into their career or whatever it is that this is acceptable because it wasn't for for our grandfathers and grandmothers or even our parents. Like it wasn't super acceptable If you were, unless you lived in a major city. Like it wasn't super acceptable if you were, unless you lived in a major city like new york or la. If you were single in your 40s, you were definitely a fucking alien, like it was. There was something wrong with you. You were the fucking uncle or the aunt. They had to go to family dinners and you like had to sit at the kids table. Even then there was extra table seats at the fucking adult table, just because they'd shun you like.
Speaker 1:So we let's just feel fortunate that we now live in a time where, like, all of the psychological and all the stuff that we're feeling is mostly manifested in ourself. It's not society as much anymore. Now don't I understand that there is noise from wherever. But yeah, talk to your therapist, Talk to your friends, communicate, do all the things. But just remember it's fucking all right. And if you like not having a partner right now, fuck yeah, man, like high five, because that's where I'm at right now.
Speaker 2:Guess, I got one other point to make after what you just said. It's all about perspective. And if you get sat at the kids table, guess what? Maybe those kids will take care of you because you're the one who sat with them. You never know Like it's all just about just form some relationships with whoever that is.
Speaker 1:Well, I also want to make the point that, like, if, when you want to be in a partnership, you're probably going to find your partner it's a, it's not going to happen overnight you just don't find it and the apps are the worst place to fucking find it. I'm finally gonna submit to that fact that, like the apps do work, people do find. People get married on the apps. I did it, but but it's just it's not the greatest place to find a person. And it's a great place to find people. Yeah to find people.
Speaker 2:I don't know about you, but I appreciate us having a listener who actually gave us a good topic to touch on today. Yeah, no, I appreciate that.
Speaker 1:I think this is one we can probably chime back into again and again. If you have tell us your stories about struggling with this or embracing it, or if you have questions, is one that's very close to the cuff on the owning alone podcast, and one we certainly want to keep revisiting, and one that both Emmanuel and I it's a roller coastercoaster ride for us too. We both go through this emotionally. I want to make sure we don't not keep talking about this, but we do have to chime in with chat. Gdp, oh yeah.
Speaker 2:I forgot.
Speaker 1:I was just saying that I picked up my phone and I apparently just matched with a girl named Tiffany. And if, going back to the Crazy Hot Matrix, the hairdresser is always named Tiffany and you, you never date, oh god, the tiffany hairdresser, she's. She's a nine dude. No, that's a dude, you gotta check that out google crazy hot matrix.
Speaker 1:All right, I gotta ask chat gdp something. Chat gdp, how does an individual in their 40s navigate the societal pressures of wanting to or not wanting to be partnered up? Do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do-do. Oh wait, Can you make it funny and shorter, Because I'm not reading all that? Sure, here are some short and funny ways to deal with societal pressures about relationships in your 40s. Number one know yourself. Quote I'm dating myself right now and it's getting pretty serious. I just snorted. Number two set boundaries. My relationship status is like my Wi-Fi password None of your business. Find your tribe. Join the Happily Singles Club. Membership perks include more sleep and less drama. Number four focus on fun. I'm too busy being awesome to worry about a relationship. Number five get help. I don't even want to read this because I think just get help is a good one therapist, because friends and family don't come with mute buttons oh very true, yep six, change norms, remember society.
Speaker 1:Quote unquote used to think the earth was flat. Do your own fucking thing. Chad GP doesn't actually swear. I added that number seven communicate.
Speaker 1:Tell your partner we're a team, not a sitcom own fucking thing. Chad GP doesn't actually swear. I added that. Number seven communicate. Tell your partner, we're a team, not a sitcom. Number eight celebrate solo, single, more like a free agent, living my best life, keep it life, keep it fun and live your life your way. And with that, everybody, I think we'll end this Again. We want to hear from you. We can't grow if you don't share, so please take the time to share, to follow us on Instagram and then share our Instagram. And we want to hear your stories. We want to hear your stories about owning your loan. You're dating, fucking war stories or success stories or whatever you're struggling with. Please slip into our dms at owning loan on Instagram. Or you can email us at fucking war stories or success stories or whatever you're struggling with. Um, please slip into our dms at only loan on instagram. Or you can email us at joel at joel at only on podcastcom, and with that, the sasquatch out.
