Midlife Uncensored
Midlife Uncensored-Real Life Discussions from Over the Hillis the no-holds-barred podcast you didn’t know you needed. Hosted by Joel Poppert, aka Poppy—the friendly Sasquatch with an epic beard—and his fiery co-host, Emanuela Messineo, aka E, this show unapologetically dives into the chaos, comedy, and WTF moments of midlife. If you’re 35-55 and ready to embrace the rollercoaster of aging, this podcast is your new home base.
Poppy and E tackle everything from modern dating disasters in the hilarious sub-series The Love Laugh Lounge (the “festivus” of dating) to real-life shit like divorce, mental breakdowns, balding, sagging tits, and figuring out how to parent while still figuring yourself out and maybe dealing with an unhinged ex. With a blend of interview episodes and no-expert-needed banter (except when we bring on experts), these two cut through the BS and get real about midlife—no filters, no sugarcoating, just pure, unfiltered truth with a heavy dose of humor. Expect raw, relatable stories, unfiltered guidance, tough love, easy happiness, and a few episodes where the comedy comes from alcohol infused banter, because who give a fuck, right?
Whether you’re dealing with the joys of aging, trying to keep your sanity while raising kids, or attempting to find love in a sea of idiots, Midlife Uncensored has your back. Expect a few F-bombs, some belly laughs, and a whole lot of honesty as Poppy and E rip the band-aid off midlife and give you permission to thrive in this beautifully messy chapter. It's not just about surviving midlife—it's about unfucking it and owning it! This is your community; we are in it together!
Midlife Uncensored
First Date Planning, Dos and Don'ts and Jitter-Tits!
Ever wondered if your pre-date social media sleuthing borders on FBI-level intrusion, or if outfit repetition is a dating faux pas? Grab a seat in our digital den at Sasquatch Studios, where Emanuela and I dissect the frolics and facepalms of first dates with a generous helping of wit and a pinch of brutal honesty. We're divulging our own dating escapades, from navigating the singles scene post-divorce to taking a breather and embracing solitude. With tales about the ghosts of relationships past that still haunt our decor to the complexities of dating multiple people, we've got you covered.
Imagine this: you're perched at the bar, early for your first date, and a pressing question bubbles up—should you order a drink or wait? Picture us trading views on this modern dilemma, along with the virtues of comfy attire and the awkward charm of running into former flames on dating apps. We pry open the can of worms that is first date etiquette, from the strategic choice of venue to the delicate dance of showing you're interested without coming off as Sherlock Holmes in disguise. Our personal anecdotes and candid banter will guide you through the minefield of pre-date preparation and post-date follow-ups.
To cap it all off, we tackle the elephant in the room: the undeniable awkwardness that shadows first encounters. We're coining quirky phrases to defuse the tension and sharing hearty laughs over the bloopers that make first dates so endearingly human. It's not just about finding 'the one'—it's about relishing the journey and the occasional stumbles along the way. Finished off by asking our favorite robot, ChatGPT, what her dating advice is, hint.. jitter-tits! So plug in, kick back, and let us whisk you through a conversation that's as enlightening as it is entertaining. Who knows, you might just emerge with a fresh perspective on how to tackle your next romantic rendezvous.
How to Engage with Us
- Email us at joel@owningalonepodcast.com
- DM us on Instagram midlifeuncensored
- Follow Joel on IG jpoppert
- Follow Emanuela on IG emanuela5683 or accountability_with_e
Thanks for joining the Owning Alone community, I certainly appreciate you!
Chat GDP. Can you give me advice on how I should approach a first date in 100 words? And can you make it funny? Absolutely Approach your first date like a stand-up comedy routine. Deliver authenticity with a side of quirkiness. Listen intently, but don't forget to throw in a well-timed uh-huh, or tell me more. It's like being a detective, but instead of solving crimes, you're solving the mystery of your date's favorite pizza topping. Keep the conversation as light as a feather boa at what y'all? It's your favorite middle-aged sasquatch yeah, you know the onea, joel Popper, and your favorite co-host, emanuela Messinaio, the Italian unicorn. And we're here today in my Sasquatch cave in colorful Colorado, in downtown Denver, and today we're going to talk to you about prepping for first dates. Green flags, red flags, all the things. It's a wonderful Friday afternoon and, before we get started, still haven't dated a girl from Boulder since I got divorced.
Speaker 2:Good job, not that it takes a lot of discipline.
Speaker 1:A lot of you out there trying to trick me into going on dates with you on the apps. Again, we want to hear from you. We want to hear your stories, dating stories, relationship stories, how you're building a better relationship with yourself. We want to address any questions you have. We just want to hear from you. So find us on the gram or email us at joel at owningloanpodcastcom. This will all be in the description, but without further ado. Manuela, how are you doing today? I'm good, it's.
Speaker 2:Friday. It is Friday, it's sunny out, it's nice and I'm ready to go have a drink on the patio, but first drinks in your living room.
Speaker 1:Yeah, drinks in my living room in the Sasquatch studio.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Do you like my Christmas?
Speaker 2:mats I have here. I love Christmas, so why not just bring a little bit of it to springtime?
Speaker 1:This is one of the funny things of being a male bachelor. I feel like the progression from a 20 year old bachelor to a 40 something old bachelor. My house you have place mats.
Speaker 2:You actually yeah, you have place mats, but they're Christmas, I love it.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I threw a Christmas party last last Christmas, not this past Christmas before that. And yeah, she bought. The girl I was dating at the time bought Christmas mats for me. Pretty much anything that's decorative in my house for the most part was is left over from past relationships.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's okay. I think a lot of men could say the same, so that's alright.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I'm not the only one.
Speaker 2:Or like a female friend that helps them decorate, or something like that.
Speaker 1:So yeah, no, I am due for a makeover, but I think I've done a good job.
Speaker 2:I'll help you with that. I'm all about that.
Speaker 1:It involves money, though I'm cheap.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I know you are, so it's okay, I can be thrifty.
Speaker 1:So you just let me know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you let me know when you're ready.
Speaker 1:I'm a Boy Scout. I like spending other people rifty, so don't worry about that. Yeah, so we're talking about dating today, so I think our banter should be. Before we get into the topic, let's where are we at? Where are you?
Speaker 2:at With dating.
Speaker 1:Yeah, time I talked to you're taking a little bit of a break.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think I need a break. Yeah. So I'm still on the apps, but not really swiping, and ended it with a few people that I was just chatting with because I it. I also have a pretty busy schedule coming up not around the next three weekends and I don't know it's heading into summer. I just want to do what I want to do and not feel like I need to leave room for dating right now. So I think I'm just going to lean into that. I think it's time for a little bit of a break. So that's where I'm at, not like opposed to it, but, yeah, not just not actively seeking it out right now.
Speaker 1:Yeah, like maybe if somebody comes along and IRL in real life, yeah, that would be lovely, but yeah, I'm just doing my thing, just like a rom-com.
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's right, we'll see, Maybe when I'm taking golf lessons or something there you go yeah, some guy comes up behind you.
Speaker 1:It's all in the air. Let me in Some stranger. It's not creepy at all.
Speaker 2:Oh God, that's funny. Half the stuff we see at movies is borderline creepy.
Speaker 1:If it wasn't Matthew McConaughey, you'd probably scream rape, but since it's Matthew McConaughey, If it was him I'd be like, oh God, please. Oh, that's my dream.
Speaker 2:That's my dream in life for Matthew McConaughey to come up behind me and show me how to swing my golf club. I'm not even kidding, it's mine too. All right, all right, all right, I love it when? Yeah, so where are you at?
Speaker 1:I don't. I used to have my ritual where I would use all my swipes in the morning while I drank my coffee and match with not to be arrogant or anything, but I've matched with too many people and more that I can handle. So I'm dating one girl I wouldn't even know if I'm not calling it dating yet because we haven't been out enough but I'm like I'm satisfied with the time I'm spending with this one person and that's easy enough for me. So I'm still on the apps, but I'm just not swiping or paying attention to it and it's not again. I talked about this in the lab. I'm not trying to be rushed to exclusive or anything or make it more than it is. I'm content with one date with one person once a week and instead of doing the chronic dating thing that I think was just habitual for me. So I'm trying something a little new, saving some money and it's allowing me to like.
Speaker 2:This is also the time of year, focus on someone like getting to know one person. That's a nice thing to do.
Speaker 1:For me, the last year has been I haven't gotten to four dates, so I'm not like putting it on a pedestal, I'm just just like if you're enjoying it.
Speaker 2:I think so. It was interesting. I saw a post the other day that said like it was explaining, like the difference between exclusivity and like being in a relationship and I think this is a topic we can get into, probably in another episode like what all the different labels mean. So I think they mean different things for different people, like even using the term dating. Like what all the different labels mean, cause I think they mean different things for different people, like even using the term dating like you're like oh my God, I don't even want to use that, cause you're like as a verb.
Speaker 2:Yes, you two are like dating and you don't. You're trying to like not put like a label around it at this point, cause you feel like it's too soon anyways. So the definition of like exclusivity in this post was basically that you're just agreeing that you want to focus on getting to know that one person, but it doesn't necessarily mean that you're in a relationship or that it's anything beyond that. So it's almost like you're just pausing the swipes or pausing like not going out on other first dates and putting your energy into getting to know that one person, which I thought was cool Cause it was, I feel, like a lot of people, you think of exclusivity as this oh God, I've now promised this person in the world and people are very reluctant to do that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I mean exclusivity exclusivity of my mind is um, that's a stage that that's something that would have to be really thoughtful about. That takes time, particularly for anybody. I think for me it's just as of last week. I was still dating somebody else that I liked, but it just got. It just didn't feel right. It got a little flaky and I was just like I don't want to deal with that. I don't. I don't know how to think about that. It's just like sometimes with a man like there's so many times that you can like not want to do something he suggests, or the conditions aren't perfect. Where it's, it wasn't as much like it was some combination between flakiness and not wanting to do the things I was suggesting and I'm just okay, like for dudes it's.
Speaker 1:We're fine, like taking the initiative, organizing a date, coming up with ideas. But at some point, if you don't like this stuff, if you don't like the suggestions that we're making, make your own suggestion, because at some point the dudes is going to be like it could just be a mismatch, right?
Speaker 2:if you don't have similar hobbies or like doing the same things, and then also like on the flip side, because you're saying they maybe weren't interested in what you're suggesting and then the other piece of it is they're also not making the effort to make a suggestion, so maybe they're not the right match for you, because either they don't have interests of their own or they just want you to do all the work.
Speaker 1:No, that sounds like a good scenario for you no, it's not a good scenario for anybody, and I think that's the difference between me, like where I think I used to get really when I was younger. I'd get really caught up in the vanity part of dating, like she's really attractive and that I just had like deer in the headlights.
Speaker 2:I'm like I want to push through all the noise and push through, push through, like all the red flags.
Speaker 1:I was more excited, I think, than the other person and that never played out well for me. And now I'm just kind of like, yeah, you know, like I think I just value myself more and I don't want to deal with. I just don't. I'm sick of just like continuous first dates, like it's nicer to like I'm the girl that I'm, whatever you want to call it.
Speaker 1:Oh god, you're so funny I'm making dinner for her tomorrow and that's nice and it's just more meaningful than we had a first date. We went and had drinks, I bought you dinner, and then we play flaky flaky for the next two weeks and maybe go out again. It's reciprocation, I think. The person that I'm seeing right now seems to really like me and it's easy and I like her, and it's healthy being four dates in.
Speaker 2:I like this evolution, I like this. This is good.
Speaker 1:I think I'm just really busy at work too.
Speaker 2:Hey, stop discounting it. I know you just said you like her, she likes you, she seems interested. It's easy, you're enjoying your time, just go with it. Yeah, I like it.
Speaker 1:I know it's nice and if it doesn't work out I'll unpause the apps and I'm sure there'll be more there there was one girl that I like I definitely was interested in and I just told her.
Speaker 1:I was like look, I'm trying to be like one person at a time right now, for no other reason than my sanity, and she was like cool, I respect that. I appreciate you telling me. If it doesn't, if it doesn't work out, I'm really interested in you and hit me up and that's healthy, right, we should be able to take that.
Speaker 2:That's part of why I like the approach of one at a time, because otherwise you get too far with two people or three people. You have to make a choice at some point, and now you've burned a bridge, closed the door, whatever, with potentially somebody that otherwise may have been a good match. So yeah, but that's good.
Speaker 1:It is good, but the topic is first date, so let's this was. I'm gonna let you lead this one.
Speaker 2:Okay, yeah, A couple episodes ago we talked about the idea of like building. Why am I drawing a blank on basic words right now?
Speaker 1:That's what happens. I know you should see. When I edit this I'm like how many times did I say the same word? Three times in a row, oh, my gosh.
Speaker 2:Yeah, listening back. Wow, I have a lot of improvement to do with my confidence in how I speak, but anyhow, that was the word I was looking for was confidence. So I think a couple episodes ago we talked about just having how to build confidence and like that like around dating and stuff. Specifically, I thought it'd be fun for us to talk about how you prepare for a first date to go into it feeling confident, and then maybe do's and don'ts like working up to that. So what, what are some things you do to prep for a first date to make you feel confident going into it?
Speaker 1:I'm like the worst person to ask this question.
Speaker 2:I can start a different way if you want.
Speaker 1:No, I'm probably going to ask I'm going to turn it back on you. I, I don't. I'm really a terrible person to ask this. I just show up. I'm a unique person that I'm. I've never really met a stranger, so I guess the way that I do it is I put myself. I've been able to figure out how to not be intimidated by my date, by the women, so I, basically it's very I'm in sales and business development and origination I. I create, I build relationships. I have most of my career. I've never met a stranger.
Speaker 1:I don't put more value than my date than I put on myself, and so when I show up, I'm showing up with, hopefully, my equal. So they're no better than me, I'm no better than them. I don't know. And what it's more of like in the headspace is like what do you have? What does she have to offer me? And I'm hoping that she's in the same headspace. So, and I don't give a lot of weight to, to the to like the end game, to the conclusion of it, or like what happens. I'm just like, I'm in there in the moment. So I go in the moment and just hey, I want to have a good time, I want to get to know this person. I'm thoughtful, respectful, but I don't carry any sort of like intimidation about that person. Um, and I don't show up arrogant either. I usually have a cocktail before I go too, just to calm yourself a little bit.
Speaker 1:Yeah, just to give me a little bit, just to take a little bit of the edge off. Don't get drunk.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Please, people, don't get drunk on here. Don't go to a date drunk, but just have a drink.
Speaker 2:So, if I heard you correctly, I feel like what you're saying is you're going in with low or no expectations around the date, especially not what the outcome is going to be. You're not like hoping that it turns into a second date or whatever. Like you don't have any expectations around that first date and I think that's like a good space to be and also going in. That's like a good space to be and also going in evaluating is this person a good match for me? Removes you can help you get into like more of a curious mindset rather than a like insecure. Oh, are they going to like me? You're flipping. I think that's really important is to go in, be curious and evaluate whether they're what you're looking for too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, yeah, so those are really good things. I only go in with the expectation and sometimes I communicate this that it's important to me that we get to know each other and that I just really like my only goal is, my only expectation is that a good person shows up and we have a nice conversation, and that all starts with the filtering right. That starts with discipline in the apps, seeing the red flags, staying away from certain things. You just, you eventually build up this sort of sixth sense around the apps. It's not perfect.
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:I've definitely been in a few situations where I got kitten fished and that's awkward, and then I, because then I have to sort of swallow some animosity and anger or frustration anger is not the right word frustration I get. I'm frustrated, I'm like you don't look like pictures, you know. I mean it bothers me that like I got duped are they edited?
Speaker 2:are they old or what's usually?
Speaker 1:it's kitten fish is usually older. Yeah, older pictures, yeah, I don't want to go into those stories and make it sound shallow, but um, cat, I'll just walk away.
Speaker 2:No, I think. I think it happens probably a lot with men like men's pictures, because I feel like a lot of men aren't out there taking pictures of themselves, so they've dragged out like some photo from 10 years ago and I've been on the apps long enough. There's people that have the same photos that have been on their profile for six years I know there is no way I link my instagram to my account.
Speaker 2:I don't just I don't want you to, I don't want there to be any sort of surprise like that's like the worst thing, like also for a female, like I don't want someone to be surprised, like that's uncomfortable for everybody, like just be who you are and like, yeah, how do you? So I'm gonna turn around on you.
Speaker 1:How do you prepare for your first dates?
Speaker 2:I like the idea of having the same outfit, so I'm pretty good about every first day every first day at the same outfit and every so often, or obviously like different times of the year, I have to change that around. But I have an outfit that I feel like really comfortable in and that I feel like is flattering or that people have complimented, so I go into it. First of all, it's like easy. I don't have to put any thought into what outfit I'm wearing and I feel good in it. The other thing is, every now and then I'll go shopping and get some new stuff. I think that just helps with confidence going into it. But I like for first and second dates just to remove some of the guesswork I wear the same thing and then I don't have to like from dating multiple people, I don't have to wonder what I wore the last time. I just always show up with the same outfit.
Speaker 1:It's not an outfit that you have on your app, is it?
Speaker 2:It's not.
Speaker 1:I tend to with the same outfit. It's not an outfit that you have on your app, is it? It's not.
Speaker 2:I tend to wear the same outfit too, but that's just because I own very little clothes.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's okay, you're a guy. Yeah, you're a guy.
Speaker 2:Okay, so that's one thing.
Speaker 1:This is all the problem of going on multiple dates too, is I start to run out of outfits?
Speaker 2:Oh yeah, that's okay. I'm probably going to wear the same thing tomorrow, that's okay. What is? I think? Also, if it's a place that I haven't been to before, I try to scope it out so that I know what the environment is that I'm walking into. So, whether it be like online photos or whatever, I try to scope out the place that I'm going to.
Speaker 1:Do you usually get there early or late?
Speaker 2:Yeah, that's another good point. I like to get there a little bit early because I hate having to look for the other person, also out of fear that they're not going to look like their photos, which I have had that happen and I still went I always give the person I a big hug.
Speaker 1:Nice to meet you yeah make them feel very in, like we're like. We just not like. We just met. I'm just like look, I make it. You know how many I am? I'm just like here, this is, this is a safe space.
Speaker 2:Let's just start talking and I just go to town, I just oh, I love a hug like I will always get up and hug, but I like to get there early and then just be like I'm sitting at the bar. I also really enjoy sitting at a bar.
Speaker 1:Corner.
Speaker 2:A corner of the bar is great, but what I love about sitting at a bar, or even at the corner, is you're not facing each other. I feel like there's a lot of awkwardness that can happen when you're just like sitting across the table from each other, and I feel like it just lowers some of the stress level. If you're sitting side by side or like a corner is fine too, but just it it removes some of the stress for me. So getting there early, I feel like I can pick the spot then oh, most of my dates don't come early, they usually come late yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't. I've historically been a I'm running late type of person. I've really tried to change that the last couple years, because people's time is important.
Speaker 1:So I got a question for you. Okay, not, it's not like a let's take it for a ride topic, but okay, just one question how do you feel about if you order a drink before your date gets there? Oh yeah, I don't do it because I feel like it's probably a red flag, but there's been times where they're 20 minutes late and I'm like it would have been nice to have a cocktail while I was waiting.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I did that recently and looking back I was like, oh, I probably shouldn't have. But it was just out of nervousness. I sat down and I just felt like I needed something. It was just out of like nervousness. But looking back I was like I probably should have waited and I definitely think that's a good sort of rule to have is to like wait for that person If they're running super late or late at all for me, I think it just depends, but I wouldn't be offended.
Speaker 2:But it came up. I don't know if I was listening to another podcast or something, but it was like the advice was like don't order until your date gets there. Like it's very rude, and I don't necessarily think it that way and for me I was early, but it was more of just like feeling like this need to have something in front of me. I suppose I could have gotten water, but I have lots of questions for you. I have lots of questions.
Speaker 1:You have lots of questions.
Speaker 2:I do. Okay.
Speaker 1:This is like a specific question about if you do something specifically before you go and you're not going to ask me if I masturbate before I date.
Speaker 2:Oh, that's actually a really good one, do you?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Okay, okay.
Speaker 1:I don't know if we're going to keep that one in there or not, but whatever.
Speaker 2:Okay, so do you. What is your thought on like Googling or looking someone up before you go on a first date, like looking, and whether it be finding them on social media? I mean okay, so you said you put your Instagram handle on your profile, so are you okay?
Speaker 1:Not my handle, it's just my Instagrams are connected to the account.
Speaker 2:Oh, got it. When you go like a hinge account on the bottom. It's all your instagram same thing at bubble I'm like okay, so they can see more photos of you and they know they're somewhat current. But okay so how so do you search someone and what? And then I have more follow-up questions to that yeah, I absolutely search people I don't want to. Before first date yeah, I don't like being catfished.
Speaker 1:I I don't like being catfished. I'm not doing it to try to get to know you online. I'm trying to see that you look like your photos, because that situation just sucks. It's awkward. Yeah, I'm super searchable. I'm sure that women can find me very easily.
Speaker 2:So do you ever link with people on social media before you go on a first date?
Speaker 1:No.
Speaker 2:Is it weird if someone like requested to follow you?
Speaker 1:Yeah, and I wouldn't accept it. Well, I don't have to my shit's public, but I would but you would see that they're following you. I would see that they would look at my stories and stuff and I wouldn't write it all. I wouldn't like don't know how. I think it would be fine if you were looking. I would have no problem if you were searching me and you clicked on my story or LinkedIn typically shows you yeah not a big deal if you like.
Speaker 1:Start following me and liking my pictures and stuff like that. To me just seems it's a little odd. Now, if she was like 15 years younger than me, then maybe it makes some sense, just because it's like a general thing. It's a little weird, you don't know the person, unless I mean technically somebody could listen to all 16 episodes of this podcast and really get to know me they might not show up anymore, but Well, but you're just being yourself.
Speaker 2:So if they don't want to show up, then it saves you the time and money of a first date.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I have no issue with somebody Googling me. I actually think it's healthy. I don't know if somebody says that's a red flag. That's a little weird. Now again, you can take it too far.
Speaker 2:So when is acceptable to you to connect on social media, are you?
Speaker 1:connected with for date girl? No, but I'm definitely connected with people I've dated.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's ended, or?
Speaker 1:I'm a fucking following. I'm a follower whore. I would love people to follow us so I can get more people to listen to the podcast. So giddy up. Yeah, love people to follow us so I can get more people to listen to podcasts. So giddy up, yeah, you can follow me. I guess that's the difference between we're.
Speaker 2:I'm public, right, I've made myself public, you're making yourself, so people can stalk you without you knowing it too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, the only account that's private is my facebook account, which I really don't use. Yeah, except for what we learned yesterday is everything's tied to fucking Facebook. It's such a joke.
Speaker 2:We figured it out, though, finally.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I think we hacked the system, but yeah, no, I don't encourage people to link up on their socials until they're until they realize that if things don't go right, they would still enjoy seeing each other in their lives. I would say that I have probably 10 or 12 girls that I've dated that follow me and maybe I follow them on social media, and it's healthy. It's nice you check in Because, again, I've learned really well how to filter people on the apps and I go on good dates with healthy, normal people and there's not a lot of drama around that. So if they want to follow and be a part of they're interested in my life, that's fine. But I don't think it's. I don't encourage it for people that, just particularly before the date or after the first date, because, particularly if you're anxious attachment that's typically an anxious attachment type move I want to know what you're doing right like when you're on line it's just not yeah, I've had friends be like.
Speaker 2:Oh, they didn't respond to my message, but I can see that they're online. It's. It can mess with you a little bit if you're in a questionable part of the relationship yeah, so short answer is you check to verify the?
Speaker 1:shit out of them before your date.
Speaker 2:Make sure they're not kitten fishing you or catfishing you, but don't be besties online yeah, so it's interesting because, like, I have a unique name so it's easy to search me, I assume, although I had it locked down until yesterday when you had to search me on Facebook to add me, but I got to lock that back down. I um, a lot of the guys that I meet have a generic name and so I have to go on like a hunt to figure out even what their last name is so I can verify photos, and unfortunately, recently that led me down a path of finding out way too much information about the person before the first date, and then I got. It made it a little awkward. It wasn't anything like bad, like it wasn't like an arrest record or anything like that, but I mean if a girl showed up on a date and she had listened to the podcast and started asking me questions about that.
Speaker 1:You could only pick up from the podcast.
Speaker 2:It'd be a red flag for me.
Speaker 1:Yeah, it's taking a little bit too much interest in me before you met me. That's a red flag. I wouldn't do that. I'm really just looking to make sure that they're Actually now I've been looking to make sure they live here because of a few times now that I've gotten sort of app-duped into location stuff. That happens all the time, Particularly girls in the mountains that are putting their location here. Apparently it's a desert in the mountains. What about you? Oh yeah you did.
Speaker 2:Oh, do I yeah. So I've gone back and forth about it. Pretty much that's what I was like. Free background checks was like not in a weird way. It was like to literally figure out what their last name was, Cause it's just a generic John, Mike, whatever. How do you find their last name?
Speaker 1:do you post their picture on? Are you dating this guy?
Speaker 2:oh my god, I did join that page at one point I joined it and I got off of it so fast it was stressing me out oh, I've heard I probably should have, though I should have after my situation last year. But that's all right, I'm not going to stress myself out at verifying that stuff.
Speaker 1:If you don't trust someone, I want to do a whole episode about that yeah, okay, because yeah, anyway, taking notes do that? Yeah, I am. We're gonna have to, we're gonna have to clip that one out. Sorry, I'm keeping track of our topics.
Speaker 2:It shows all the space and yeah okay, yeah, I I've gone back and forth about google searching or trying to find the guy. I think if I the times that I do it now, it's more of if there's inconsistency amongst the photos or something seems off, but if enough of them match like they're wearing a wedding ring, so oh god, that does happen a lot.
Speaker 1:Oh, I've seen it too and then you're like they're either married or they're old.
Speaker 2:Those pictures are way too old there's a lot that end up being like okay, like they're all consistent. And then the last one, it's like 50, they look 15 years older and I'm like okay, what do you actually look like today? So it just I also feel like that's not authentic. Oh, there's a very simple rule around this. Like I, just I end up-.
Speaker 1:Just the worst picture. That's what they look like.
Speaker 2:Yeah, and the thing is, though, if there's that much variation, it's a turnoff, like I don't want to go on a first date.
Speaker 1:No, I get it Because I feel like it's going to end up making it awkward.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I don't like being awkward.
Speaker 1:I mean, I get, you, get the.
Speaker 1:We could do a whole episode of the apps, but either it's a group of them and their friends and you got to zoom in to see what they look like and or it's all. I guess our generation would have called them glamour shots, but it's all, it's all. You know. I think this is the thing for, particularly for women our age, mid thirties to mid forties To go get glamour shots. So I think they call them something else now. But, like I've met a lot of women that go, and I think it's great they do go do boudoir type stuff and go get these super hot fucking pictures taken.
Speaker 2:Yeah, but they're also edited.
Speaker 1:They're edited, yeah, and I think that's great. I think for anybody you should put a couple really great, you know, if you have professional photos on there to show your best self, but also, like they can't all be that.
Speaker 2:As a guy, you should know if there's something that looks like a professional photo, it's going to be edited. So that's not probably what I don't know. Like, I have one on there that I had with a professional photographer and I'm far enough away that you're not it's not like that edited, but yeah, hopefully. At one point I was looking at my profile and I noticed I had that. Then I had one from like a photographer because I was in a wedding, so it was like me and my friend and there was basically it was like three of my photos were from photographers. I took them down because I was like I don't want, not that doesn't look like profile a few weeks ago.
Speaker 1:Your pictures are fine. They don't.
Speaker 2:They're representative of you but it just was like one of those oh thanks.
Speaker 1:I was buzzing around the other day.
Speaker 2:Oh God, You're funny yeah.
Speaker 1:It was always fun when I came across Mac's wife too when she was on there.
Speaker 2:Yeah, it's funny to yeah whatever.
Speaker 1:It's funny when you see people you know.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you are Hi how are you doing?
Speaker 1:I didn't realize you were divorced.
Speaker 2:How many people I've gone on first dates with like oh God, oh man.
Speaker 1:Oh, that's a whole other episode too Running into people that you've dated, cause I've dated half the city at this point, so I run into women all the time and I don't remember them a lot.
Speaker 2:I just had one Terrible. Yeah, that's bad If you've gone out with them. This one. I didn't go out with him, but I blew him off and he like gave me a rundown of what we were both doing at the time that we last were talking and I was like this is awkward flaky girl, but she's, oh, she doesn't listen to this podcast she was she and I connected like a year and a half ago, and when we reconnected again, this time I was like I have your number in my phone because she gave me her number again.
Speaker 1:I was like like I have your number in my phone because she gave me her number again. I was like, oh, I have your number in my phone. And then I had to do a deep dive in my memory and I'm like, oh, because when it started, like we went on the one date, it was nice and I was like this is nice, like we finally connected, and then it got flaky and it's a. It was a different type of flaky. It was very indiscreet flaky. So it wasn't like I didn't realize it was flaky until like it happened like three or four times. It wasn't like direct canceling, which I have no tolerance for. It was very like indiscreet.
Speaker 1:It was like the weather's not good, I don't want to drive up my downtown or excuses I gotta go up to here this today and it's the benefit of the doubt, I don't really care whatever. And then, but then I like searched my memory and I was like I remember now because I this was happening when we were trying to connect before and I I deleted her from my app and um stopped communicating with her. And I remembered all that, like recently I was. That's where I was like jesus christ, get it together. You're either not interested.
Speaker 2:You're not interested in dating or or any of the above, or it's not a match.
Speaker 1:I think yeah that's another rule for first dates go on it. Yeah, go on it if you say you're gonna go yeah, if you say you're gonna go, you should go.
Speaker 2:If you're not interested, just say it and move on.
Speaker 1:Because usually when you go you have a good time. I almost always enjoy the date and I've definitely had times where I'm like I just don't Like something happened or like whatever and I just don't like, I don't have it in me, quote, unquote. But I go and then it always ends up being reasonable and then sometimes you're really pleasantly surprised. You're like man, if I wouldn't have gone on this. Because I think a lot of people rightfully have a rule that they don't go, they don't give second chances and cancellations, and I don't blame them. A lot of times I don't either, particularly when it's like hey, I'm sick an hour before the date. To me, that's like you could have told me the day before.
Speaker 2:That's yeah.
Speaker 1:The day before, or the morning of, or the morning of.
Speaker 2:Yeah, you're not, it's an excuse.
Speaker 1:Anyway, I know you got more yeah.
Speaker 2:I've got more. You got a whole sheet full of shit there. Sorry, I'm trying to be prepared.
Speaker 1:I just like swearing.
Speaker 2:Trying to be prepared for our listeners Come on, get your shit together.
Speaker 1:There's apparently an emergency going on outside somewhere. Yeah, I know.
Speaker 2:Okay, I think, and so another thing I like to do. It sounds like you go in off the cuff and you're really good. They're coming to get you. Yeah, they are, it's on fire in here.
Speaker 2:Woo, you go in off the cuff, but you're like a very like social person, like you're very comfortable in that. For me, sometimes I think like I do get nervous going into a first date at times. So something I like to do is just go back and look at their profile and come up with a couple of questions that I have that are specific to them, based on, like our conversation, like going in ahead of time. Sometimes I'll just get like nervous and I drop a link.
Speaker 1:This is why you're such a blank co-host too prepared.
Speaker 2:I try but I have given zero thought to what I'm gonna say on my date oh god, I'm like I don't want to seem like uninterested or only talking about myself and then I just can't think of a question. So it's good, I'll usually like on my uber over, I'll do that, which is also another rule I have. I don't, I was usually Uber. If I'm going to have more than a drink, I always Uber. So it's more of just like my tolerance is really finicky and some days two drinks and I'm like I need Uber. So it just depends, but that just is more comforting for me. Do you have any sort of rules around what you will or won't do on a first date, like number of drinks or?
Speaker 1:I definitely try to stay away from dinner. Just dinner is very hard to control. I've talked about this in one of the earlier episodes, I think, with Lauren on the Love Laugh Lounge, about setting boundaries or expectations around the first date, because it's it can go a lot of directions and things. It's not about the money as much as it is about the money. It's a stranger. Spending $200 on a stranger is just like not.
Speaker 2:No, that's not. This also shouldn't be expected from whoever's on the other end of that. And if it does end up happening, I feel like sharing that cost is okay too If it does end up getting. I feel like sharing that cost is okay too If it does end up getting a little pricey.
Speaker 1:I'm such an old school person, I really do believe in men paying for the first few dates. I almost always pay for the dates. I think that's it's not an expectation, Like some girls will almost try to be adamant about paying half and I'll pay when they're in the bathroom, I just think.
Speaker 1:For me it's just a very I like that old school Like I wish I wasn't that person, cause I'd save a lot of money. But but now if I'm at, if I'm past like four or five dates, of course I'm like, yeah, you can pay half, that's great, I appreciate it, because it just makes it easier for us.
Speaker 2:Second, place or something I don't usually do. I like a first date to be short and sweet, like a couple hours. It's good. I don't know like I've had much longer first dates, but the I think, especially for me, if you're like nervous or you have to like prep a lot or whatever for it, a couple hours is good, maybe a little bit more than that or whatever, but having, do you ever sort of like have an out?
Speaker 1:um, I mean, I don't have a fake out, I'll just. Sometimes I can tell if it's not going well. And when I say not going well, like you usually know, like don't order and you know because usually drinks don't order right, like yeah she, because usually drinks flip-flop right.
Speaker 1:Yeah, she's halfway through, I finished mine. Blah, blah, blah. Like you can kind of send the signals like not order another one or be like hey, just want to call it. I've done that before. I've been on dates that are like an hour and I'm just like you know you can tell the catfish ones or the kittenfish ones. I'm typically real short with those. I'm like, yeah, one drink and I'm like look, I'm done it's very awkward.
Speaker 1:It is a little awkward because you can tell you can feel energy. Yeah, I'm not a big energy person, but you can feel energy when there's something wrong. But if it's a good date I'll lean into it and I'll take it for whatever it is. I share a lot on my dates. I'm a pretty open person and I lean in. I don't really I'm not like just puking stuff out of my face and like saying everything and I'm not. I'm just very here's who I am. I don't get nervous, so I don't. I'm not saying the wrong things, but I'm not maybe not saying the right things, but I'm like I'm unique in the sense that I don't differentiate between strangers, friends.
Speaker 1:There are things I don't try to talk about, but they typically come up. I don't talk about my marriage. I try not to, unless they're divorced too. Then usually it'll go down that road. But it's not like here were all our problems and blah, blah, blah. It's more like I was divorced and when I got out of my divorce I went on this journey, or like my dad died and you know, it's never like what was me. It's more like if there's a relation there, there's like something to talk about. I'm not afraid to talk about my journey, and that's me personally.
Speaker 2:I'm not advocating for people to do that, that's just me.
Speaker 1:I don't know how to not be poppy, I just don't. So I don't try to, but I also don't just throw the whole board on the table I don't on the first date. So I'm and I'm I mean I like asking questions and I like to dialogue and blah blah, and I've gotten better at that and I've been really fortunate to be to go on dates with me interesting people that have stuff to say and that have like things going on in their life and, um, when you go out with people that are duds, you can usually tell and it's like it sucked because they're not interesting so how long do you chat on the app before you go out?
Speaker 2:and then a follow-up question is do you get off the app before you go out? Do you exchange numbers before you go out too?
Speaker 1:I haven't been up until the last six months. I haven't. I've been wanting to get the number before and I don't know. Yeah, it's another way for me to like kind of send the signal there's not gonna be another one or just that there isn't like I think you haven't decided yet. No, I think it's fun at the end of the day when you like somebody and you can tell they like you to be like you know. Right at the end they're like oh yeah, I forgot. Can I get your number?
Speaker 1:right, I like that move um, but that also shows some level of interest at the end of the date to continue something yeah without it being too invested I don't like chatting on the apps at all I think, that you do just enough to make each other comfortable to decide to go. I typically come right out the gate. I think you're attractive and you look interesting. We should grab a drink sometime, and usually that works.
Speaker 1:That's just like yeah, let's find time, and then I've had women that are like look, I appreciate, I'd like to get to know you a little bit more, and what I will tell you about that is I will play that game and I will do it, and I don't think it's a. It's usually a game. It's usually it never leaves the app. That's been my experience with that. So I give them the benefit of the doubt that they need more time to get to know me via text, but I would tell you that like probably eight out of 10 times that ends up being pen pal situation and I get out of that real fast.
Speaker 2:I'm just like no yeah, I've also stopped giving a number ahead of time or before a date, especially. There was one guy recently that I did give my number to before, but it was because we couldn't coordinate schedules for a couple weeks and I was like you can't have my number until we have a solid plan, though, for our first date, so it was like a date. He was like, okay, I'll make a reservation, here's the time, location, date, all that stuff. And then I was like, okay, here's my number. And that panned out to several dates and whatever.
Speaker 1:But I don't text between that, but that was okay, like it.
Speaker 2:It ended up. It was good. Solid advice to like from one of the dating coaches I follow online says not to exchange numbers before you have a solid plan for a date. So not like interest in a date, not what place, time, date, and once you have that then it would be like okay to exchange numbers. So that's what I tried. I tried, but okay. So what was my other? I have another question for you. Oh, okay, so are you usually the one that picks a location?
Speaker 2:yeah and do you have like places in mind? Do you make it convenient for her, or is it like you have a couple spots that are like your go-tos?
Speaker 1:I always ask where. I always ask where they, what area of town they live in, and I try to find a place around them close to them, yeah that's nice. That fits into my, what I want to spend, what type of situation I want. I obviously know this city very well, so you can't really fool me on this one. I'm usually can come up with a spot just about anywhere yeah, I've always tried to.
Speaker 2:I think you're so skeptical you're like you can't fool me oh we should go to. We should go.
Speaker 1:No, I've had that before too like we should go here and I'm like, no, that's such an awkward situation to put a man in like on a first date. They're, there's a really good restaurant by me and you look at it, it's like a fucking Michelin star restaurant and I'm like fuck off, that's ridiculous. And I'm usually that I cancel those I do.
Speaker 1:Yeah, that's a big red flag for me Is you're trying to dictate what I do. I'm all about leaning in and taking on the date and setting it up this first day, whatever it wants to be. I usually give people options. Yeah, I say, look, do you like? I think that if you're available on Thursday at five o'clock, here's what we can do. We can go on a walk around Sloan's Lake or watch park and grab a cocktail, or we can go to happy hour here. And I usually give one or two options to a couple options and say hey, look, what are you feeling?
Speaker 2:I think that's really nice. Actually, that for me is a green flag for some with like in that process, because it feels like you're collaborating, you're asking, like you're taking initiative, but you're also allowing input and you're being like thoughtful about that. So I think that's really nice. I think that's like a big green flag for me too, cause it's you know, teamwork and um and just being thoughtful of the other person is a big deal for me. So I think that's like a great way to start things off. So good job.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I would. Based on the things that I know. I think that, speaking to men right now, like some of the easier moves that you can make with a woman is to make their, is to put in a little effort, make it convenient for them. These go a long ways. It's a red flag, I think, for any woman If you're like, yeah, why don't you come over?
Speaker 1:here, and then you're on the date and you realize that they had to walk to the bar. Now, I've been in many situations where the girl could have walked to the bar, and I did that on purpose, not because I wanted to end up in their apartment, but they just make it easy for them.
Speaker 2:I think making sure that a woman is like comfortable and feels like safe in that time is really is going to go a long way to making the first date like successful. So whether it's, I don't necessarily if somebody doesn't live in my neighborhood, I don't necessarily take them or ask to go somewhere in my neighborhood, like I like to keep that for myself. But if somebody lives in around the area then I will.
Speaker 1:Yeah, I wouldn't encourage women to let their first days know where they live either yeah, I'll just give like an area, but okay I do have a question for you. Go ahead and open it, happy hour how do you so?
Speaker 1:okay, oh, this mic is pointing straight at the sky there, that's all better. Just two, two questions I'm going to build into it. How do you know? There's really a question I should ask myself, but I have zero. Anyway, how do you know if a guy is going to like? How do you send the signal? Or do you feel like when a guy is going to give you a little smoochy smooch before they leave, because it's either awkward or not awkward, right?
Speaker 2:Yeah.
Speaker 1:Or how do you put that energy out there if you know you want a smoochy smooch?
Speaker 2:I think there's a lot of body language you can use throughout the date to show that you're open to that, just like little touches or whatever, which is also why I love sitting next to the person, because it just makes it a lot easier to do that like touching their arm or whatever. Like same thing a guy can do. I don't know, I feel like most first dates in that way if it went well. So I'm not like a host. Is it better if a guy can do? I don't know, I feel like most first dates end that way if it went well, so I'm not like opposed.
Speaker 1:Is it better if a guy asks, or do you rather, oh God?
Speaker 2:that would be awkward. I did have somebody ask once. I understand the gesture of asking. I've only had that happen once and yeah, I mean I appreciate that gesture but it's a little awkward, I feel like I think you can also give some closed off vibes if you aren't Okay. So if I'm not interested, I at the end will go in and I'll make sure my face is not anywhere, like I'm turning my face as I go in for a hug. Nice to meet you, so it's fine, but it's never been like an awkward thing for me. You either go in for it or you don't.
Speaker 2:Yeah, I think you just can make it known enough that, whether you are no, I mean sometimes you can.
Speaker 1:It's not a perfect. It's not a perfect science. Justine and I had the conversation love laugh long recently about when the situation, what to do in the situation when a guy or a girl, you in the situation when a guy or a girl basically starts putting you in the position to accept a second date on the first date and maybe you don't want to, and then her she didn't like it because I said it was a lie, she would. She is typically to say okay, yeah, blah blah, then text him a couple days later.
Speaker 1:But, I actually think it's not a bad strategy, because I think it's an awkward situation to be in in the first place, but how do you deal with that? I guess, when.
Speaker 2:I, you know a handful of times somebody has asked and I'll just say yes, because I yeah, you try to make it not awkward and I don't remember whether I did or didn't go out with them again. I think I try to make it. I try to make it easy on my guy too, like maybe I shouldn't, but I try to tell them if I'm having a nice time or just like little things that I think just help ease the situation of a first date, but most of the time it comes later. So I suppose in the past year I don't think I've had somebody ask me for a second date on the first date. It's always come like after, and I it's like in a text, like either later that day, like night, or the next day or whatever.
Speaker 2:If that did happen, though, I think I'd have, I think I would say I've had a nice time. I, I don't know. I think it just depends on how you feel in that moment. If you've had a nice time, then yes, and if not, just say just be honest, just say I'm not sure if I'm feeling it, I might I want to sleep on it or I don't know. Fair enough.
Speaker 2:They're opening it up, they're opening it up to a potential no, so they need to be ready for that too and if, for some reason, you don't feel safe, then why?
Speaker 2:and just get out of there, like that's not. So I think Justine's point was also or maybe you mentioned that just from a safety standpoint that's like a good move for a woman to wait until later. But I think there's like a kind way that you can say hey, just like you do in a or I do in a text, and say I've had a really nice time. I'm not sure that this is what I'm looking for, but I appreciate it and good luck. Yeah, so I think just having some nice, kind ways to tell people is also like really respectful too. So I don't know.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, I think that's fair. I don't think it was a safety thing for me when I suggested. I think it's more of just to avoid any sort of hostile, awkward sort of situations where a male's ego gets hurt or something.
Speaker 2:I deducted from that. Yeah, I don't know.
Speaker 1:I mean it's interesting talking about first this topic as middle-aged people versus. I think this topic for 20-somethings would be, completely different. Because they deal with so much, there's just not as much growth. I guess that's happened and you know so we're not really talking to the younger people as much as we are.
Speaker 2:I also think if a man does that, that's a pretty vulnerable thing to do, so I would commend them for doing that. If they're you know, it doesn't leave a question mark in the woman's eyes of did they have a good time and what the intention is. So I think it's a nice thing. It just might not be reciprocated.
Speaker 1:Yeah, no, and I also think from my, and I'm not a big fan of playing games but, there's a little bit of a science to it.
Speaker 1:If you can control yourself as a man or as a woman, don't show all your cards after the first date. It's not a game as much as it's a science and a chemistry type thing. Make them wonder a little bit and get excited about it, and it makes that sort of text later, even if it's like that night, like did you get home? Oh yeah, on first dates, by the way, always take an interest in them getting home. Text me when you get home, blah, blah, blah. Obviously they're adults, they're strong independent females.
Speaker 1:They get home themselves, but it is shiverly, oh my gosh.
Speaker 2:but that shows like a protector. I love that.
Speaker 1:Absolutely, and then make sure that you just top it off with a dick pic, not your dick, use somebody else's dick.
Speaker 2:Oh, shut up, come on. Send a big black one oh my God, I was laughing, I was messaging with this guy, my buddy used to do that he used to send.
Speaker 1:if a girl would ask him for a dick pic, he would send a picture of basically a big black cock oh god from the internet.
Speaker 2:That's funny so I recently was like messaging with this guy and then we got onto I don't know house remodeling something or other and I sent some pictures of some projects I did at my last place and he was like thanks for the unsolicited DIY pics. I was like, oh, look at that.
Speaker 1:Yeah, nice play. I sent a girl a picture of Anthony Weiner the other day.
Speaker 2:So instead of dick pics you could send DIY pics, yeah.
Speaker 1:Or a picture of a hot dog, or a picture of your deck.
Speaker 2:You can send him a deck pic, yeah, especially if it was DIY, yeah.
Speaker 1:But dick pics, I just don't think. I just don't think, I just can't imagine. It does a whole lot. But yeah, on first dates don't send those pics. No, that's not a good move. No, I think we, I think, to wrap up to sort of the summary I mean at least from my perspective is go on, your first dates Show up.
Speaker 2:Show up. That was a big yep show up.
Speaker 1:No expectations no expectations. Except for to get to know somebody.
Speaker 2:Yep.
Speaker 1:Go in with the mindset that you have something to offer and they need to not prove to you they have something to offer, but go in as an equal.
Speaker 2:And be curious too, right, be curious, yeah, be curious about them and have, if you're like me, be prepared, do things that help make you confident, like whether it's listening to good music or whatever. Just do things that help you smile or make you feel confident going into it.
Speaker 1:It's okay to have one outfit that you wear on every first date.
Speaker 2:Yeah, why not?
Speaker 1:Just make sure it's not an outfit you're wearing in your apps, or who the fuck cares why.
Speaker 2:I was like, that also doesn't.
Speaker 1:I would rather just go in flip-flops and shorts. Hell yeah, I am all for that. I'm all for the casual dates, yeah.
Speaker 2:I am too.
Speaker 1:Yeah, so I want to do a little Try something out here. We so I want to do a little try something out here. We're going to ask ChatGDP what it thinks people should do to prepare for first dates.
Speaker 2:Oh, I like this Okay.
Speaker 1:All right, we asked ChatGDP. What did I ask her? I'm going to say it to her. Chatgdp, can you give me advice on how I should approach a first date in 100 words? And can you make it funny? Absolutely. Approach your first date like a stand-up comedy routine. Deliver authenticity with a side of quirkiness. Listen intently, but don't forget to throw in a well-timed uh-huh. Or tell me more. It's like being a detective, but instead of solving crimes, you're solving the mystery of your date's favorite pizza topping. Keep the conversation as light as a feather Boa at what I don't even know that word. Keep the conversation as light as a feather Boa at Magic Show. Steering clear of topics that are as awkward as trying to boa at magic show. Steering clear of topics that are as awkward as trying to dance at a macarena and flippers. And remember, if all else fails, just blame any awkward moments on mercury being in retrograde and mercury being in retrograde oh, I've had that happen.
Speaker 1:Works like a charm.
Speaker 2:Let me ask you anymore, anymore, anymore.
Speaker 1:That was fun. I want to do more of it yeah, I like it of course, approach your first.
Speaker 1:Oh, it just did the same thing that was good embrace the awkward moments like they're your quirky sidekick and remember laughter is the best ice break ice breakers since a sliced bread. I fuck me, I can't read. Embrace the awkward moments like they're your quirky sidekick and remember a sidekick and remember laughter is the best icebreaker since sliced bread or maybe since the invention of ice skates. Just relax, have fun and if all else fails, blame any mishaps on a case of First Date Jitter Tits. It's a real medical condition, I swear.
Speaker 2:First Date Jitter Tits. I think it says I like that, I actually like that. I like it too. First Date Jitter.
Speaker 1:Tits. I like that. I actually I like that. I like it too. First day of jitter tits. We're going to brand that.
Speaker 2:My trademark is live life goofy, oh my.
Speaker 1:God. All right, we're going to end that here, manuel. I appreciate you showing up with your notes and taking a lead on this one. We can't do this without you guys. Please share, give us five stars, rate, follow us, share your stories, ask us questions. We want to solve your problems. You can slip into our DMs at owningalone on the Instagram. You can find me on TikTok at Joel Poppert. We both have our personal accounts which are tied to the Owning Alone, and you can always email us at Joel at owningloanpodcastcom. So with that, this Sasquatch is out and we need to come up with a tagline. Okay, bye, bye.
