you single?

Adversity to Empowerment: Navigating Dyslexia, Narcissistic Abuse, and Personal Growth ft. Ellen Busch

• Joel Poppert • Season 1 • Episode 11

Share episode

Send us a text

I once believed that certain academic challenges were insurmountable, but Ellen Busch's story, shared in her memoir "Disempowered: How I Turned an Academic Death Sentence into My Life's Greatest Adventure," taught me the power of transformation. Her tale is not just one of conquering dyslexia, but of embracing life's adversities to chart a path filled with purpose and wonder. Together, we navigate the misunderstood world of dyslexia, from its challenges within the 70s education system to the unique strengths it can bestow, like impressive visualization skills. Ellen's personal experiences underscore the necessity of support and self-belief in redefining one’s potential.

Have you ever felt trapped by your circumstances? Ellen's journey through a manipulative marriage opens a candid discussion on the dark shadows of narcissistic abuse and the profound impact of low self-esteem on our choices. Yet, her rise to empowerment reveals a blueprint for healing, with therapy and holistic practices like CrossFit and Mark Devine's five mountain training playing instrumental roles. Ellen's personal evolution from survivor to warrior, eager to empower others, proves that the path to self-discovery is fraught with hurdles but ultimately rewarding.

In the delicate dance of life's dynamics, Ellen and I delve into the art of setting boundaries—a topic close to my heart and vital for well-being. Her advocacy for dyslexia awareness and her wisdom in personal growth teach us to face our past traumas and build healthier relationships. Ellen's inspiring narrative serves as a beacon for those looking to own their stories and as a reminder of how embracing our unique journeys can lead to a life of adventure and authenticity. Connect with her mission, be part of the conversation, and remember: owning your narrative is the most thrilling adventure of all.

Find Ellen:
Website: https://www.ellenbusch.com/
IG: @ellenbusch1500
LinkedIn: @ellen-busch
Facebook
Buy the book at Amazon here. 

How to Engage with Us

Thanks for joining the Owning Alone community, I certainly appreciate you!

Speaker 1:

Hey y'all, it's your favorite middle-aged Sasquatch. You know the one that small giant with the epic beard game and recording live from my Sasquatch cave here in sunny Denver, colorado. You're listening to another episode of the Owning Alone podcast. I'm super honored to welcome my guest, ellen Bush, to the studio today.

Speaker 1:

Ellen is an all-around amazing human and the author of her recently released memoir Disempowered how I Turned an Academic Death Sentence into my Life's Greatest Adventure. She is here today to discuss her book, which outlines the extraordinary journey of her life, a story about conquering dyslexia, low self-worth, narcissists, physical abuse and much more. It's a powerful story of trauma to transformation and finding meaning in the second life she enjoys now. I'll make sure to put her information in the description and a link to the book, which can be found on Amazon anytime. Ellen, I have learned not to do too much of my guest's bio, as the guest is always better at telling their own story, and since we are literally here to discuss your story, let's dive right in. So welcome to the show. Please start by telling us a little bit about yourself and why you felt compelled to write this powerful book.

Speaker 2:

Sure, and thank you for having me on as a guest, of course. So my reason for writing the book was that it is my hero's journey, and anybody who's familiar with Joseph Campbell and the hero's journey understands that the last part of the hero's journey is to bring what you've learned back to your tribe and to share that knowledge. And I have learned so much. I felt a very strong sense of responsibility to share what I've learned.

Speaker 1:

I think that's amazing and I just finished the book about a week ago, and I'm not just saying this because you're sitting in front of me. It was actually a very, very well-written book, a very powerful story. I can attest to that. I think it's got so many levels of, I think, a journey that is both common and uncommon to an individual. Do you want to tell us a little bit about sort of where this all started, which it sounds like in the educational system?

Speaker 2:

of the United States.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, so yeah, it started when I was either six or seven years old I don't remember exactly how old I was.

Speaker 2:

I lived in the New York City suburb of Croton-on-Hudson, which is an affluent community just outside of New York City, and people moved there because of the good school systems. So I you know, kindergarten, first grade. It was pretty obvious at first that I was Amber Dextrous, and that was what was noticed first, and then, with further testing, I was diagnosed as dyslexic and unfortunately, in that time frame that was an academic death sentence and that's why I used that exact term. My parents were sat down in a parent-teacher conference Now, they didn't tell me this until I was an adult and it was appropriate, but they were sat down in a parent-teacher conference with an administrator and the administrator said to them that college was out of the question. Administrators said to them that college was out of the question. I might be able to finish high school, but I would not be contributing to society other than as a wife and a mother and they should focus on finding a husband who would take care of me.

Speaker 1:

So that's how it began. It seems very 50s and you're not that extraordinarily old. This is the 70s, right? This is the 70s it, this is the 70s.

Speaker 2:

It's terrible, it's awful. Well, and by today's standards, I mean if an administrator said that they'd probably be fired.

Speaker 1:

I mean, it's unprofessional on top of, and can you explain to our listeners a little bit about sort of what the common, I guess? I guess struggles that you, that people with dyslexia encounter particularly when they're younger.

Speaker 2:

So the struggle that I have and I think the biggest is I have very little short-term memory. My long-term memory is excellent, so, which is very useful, but when you're in kindergarten, first grade, second grade, what is a lot of the work is memorizing your times tables, memorizing your spelling words. So that was always very difficult for me and I was at a disadvantage. You know that was really playing to my weaknesses, not to my strengths it was. The other issue, too, is that dyslexia is often associated with, or thought of as, an intellectual disability, and that's just simply not true. Now, it is legally a disability and we are protected under the Americans with Disabilities Act. So once a child is diagnosed, and.

Speaker 2:

I hate that word, but it is the correct word. Once the child is diagnosed with dyslexia, they fall under that those protections, and the school must provide accommodations and other support services.

Speaker 1:

That's today, not back then.

Speaker 2:

I know it was then as well. Okay, and that's the law, and a lot of schools have difficulty funding that, so that can be an issue in getting a child diagnosed. I know that there are some school systems today who won't allow their administrators to use the word dyslexia.

Speaker 1:

What word did they use?

Speaker 2:

They don't use any word, they will not admit, and this is, somebody told me this privately, so I will never say their name. An administrator was told by her managers that if she used that word she could get fired, because then that child is diagnosed. They're protected, they have a whole set of laws that protect them and do you think that it's so?

Speaker 1:

I I was. I just thought of this question and I didn't think about it when I was reading the book. But when you were, was there anybody else in your class? I guess per se that was dyslexic at the same time as you, that you had, because it sounded like to me it's a story of a child that was isolated and alone. Very much didn't understand it. You were very blessed with having parents, which I'm sure you'll talk about that were very supportive, but was there anybody else that was going through this? Not that at that age we really have the communication skills to have discussions with our peers about what they're struggling with, but did you have anybody?

Speaker 2:

They were maybe I'd say there's less than a handful of students, because we were taken out of the regular classroom for part of the day and we were in a special classroom with individualized help and I think there were maybe four or five of us, so not a lot, you know, and, like you mentioned, you know, one of the things I want to dive into and I think this is really important for parents to hear is that they can make a massive difference, because my parents did not accept what this administrator said and thank God they didn't. That parent-teacher conference ended with my mother pounding her fist on the desk saying I refuse to allow you to condemn my daughter.

Speaker 1:

Good for her Go mom.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, she was a pretty incredible woman as well, and you know they both understood that I needed their support and they did everything in their power to support me. My mom helped me with my homework every night. She got involved in the school. She was a class mom. I don't know if they do that anymore. I don't think they do.

Speaker 1:

I think there's always moms around somewhere, somewhere right. Something you don't want around. They do that anymore. I don't think they do. I think there's always moms around somewhere Somewhere right.

Speaker 2:

Something you don't want around. Yeah, exactly. But she got to know my teachers. She was in constant communication with my teachers, she was involved and she showed up. And then my dad understood. He was an Army veteran so he understood that learning outside of the classroom was really the important learning. So he started to give me challenging things to do and he also taught me everything he knew how to do as a little girl. I was navigating his boat, I was using Compass. He taught me how to read nautical charts. We're talking eight, nine years old, but those skills it's incredible. Yeah, it was pretty incredible. Those skills were helping me to build self-confidence and those are important skills to have for life. You know how to read the water, how to read the weather, you know how to anticipate bad weather coming in. I used to have to stand on an upside down bucket so I could reach the steering wheel of his boat.

Speaker 1:

Was it a sailboat or a powerboat?

Speaker 2:

He was a fisherman.

Speaker 1:

Fisherman yeah, so it was a fishing boat, and did you? So this also brings up, because I think people this is a question that I wrote down before prepping for this, but you know there's obviously some, some disadvantages to being dyslexic. But can you talk a little bit about? I think you sort of expressed that there were some advantages or you know, there's unique skills, I think, that dyslexic people have because of how they're wired.

Speaker 2:

I suppose yeah, sure so, and you're absolutely right. In fact, there's a great book out there called the dyslexic advantage and it's written by two MDs, so people with real credentials, and they actually go through all the different kinds of advantages that dyslexic people have. One of our advantages is seeing patterns, patterns and you know big picture patterns and connections that most people miss. In fact, british Intelligence Services specifically recruits people who are dyslexic because their ability to see patterns and connections that most people miss so an incredibly valuable skill. Another great example is visualization skills. I like to describe it as if we're born with CAD software and we can visualize, say, a pen and we can rotate it, we can take it apart, we can put it back together all in our head.

Speaker 1:

That's amazing.

Speaker 2:

Interestingly enough. Thank you, it is amazing. Nasa actively recruits dyslexic people, the real rocket scientists. So that in itself is amazing, but it is specifically for that visualization skill that that's what they're looking for. So that's two right there. The other is, in my case, I have an excellent long-term memory, so I don't have the short-term memory. I lose my keys, I lose my coffee, I forget to close the garage door all the time. But the tradeoff is that my long-term memory is excellent, so I remember the strangest facts and figures. And my father was dyslexic and he was just like this oh, your father was dyslexic.

Speaker 1:

Yes, he was. Is it genetic or is it just a disqualification?

Speaker 2:

Often it is Okay, yeah, and I like to say that it's not something you have, it's something you are.

Speaker 1:

And I like to say that it's not something you have, it's something you are. Well, it seems like you know, I know two people that are close to my life, which I won't call out unnecessarily, but that were dyslexic, that were very successful people. It sounds like to me that it was how it was dealt with when you were younger and I'm a little. Tell us a little bit about that. But I keep thinking like I'm not quite sure it just it just seems like your school, unfortunately, like maybe it was because of the affluent community or what it was that they just I don't want to deal with it. You know, go find a husband.

Speaker 1:

It's just, it's crazy to me which again in today's time, it would. People would be up in arms, but it's, it's not a disability in a lot of ways, but they but since they treated it like one, they took things away from you and you know you had, you gained a lot of insecurities and self-esteem stuff around it and absolutely, which is a terrible thing, to tell a kid that they can't do x and x, y and z right and we forget how much things can really impact children.

Speaker 2:

I think so yeah, tell us a little bit about that sure and I just want to go back and kind of finish my thought on the long-term memory. So I had a college roommate and, yes, I did go to college and I did. I have a master's, I also have a master's degree do too. So yeah, they got it wrong. My college roommate used to call me Ellen the encyclopedia because I could just remember everything, so that was kind of a funny joke. But to go back to your point, yeah, so I don't know the reasoning behind it, but they were just they wrote me off and I got that message every single day when in the classroom.

Speaker 2:

To me the classroom was a dangerous, hostile environment and I was repeatedly traumatized. I was treated as a second-class citizen and because by the teachers not all of the teachers I did have some amazing teachers, thank God, but I had to fight through every test. Every question. Every day was a massive struggle. To me the classroom was a dangerous hostile environment. It really was, and it was a continuous battle. I mean it went on, you know, all the way through high school. And then it was really interesting and this is in the book when I did finish my bachelor's degree and I went back to school. I actually went back to my high school looking for a copy of my transcript, because I was trying to figure out what my next step was. And I ran to my old guidance counselor and he was just flabbergasted that I actually graduated from college. He just looked at me and said really, you graduated from college, so that's what I was up against.

Speaker 1:

And did you find you did any? Any point? Did that? Cause I'm, I'm sort of this way. I was, I was pretty rebellious and stuff, and if you told me something I couldn't do, I tended to do the opposite. Right, so is that? I mean? I know, in the book you talk about getting bullied and you talk about, I mean, to be bullied by a teacher is just unfathomable to me. But, like you know, not all human beings have awareness and everybody struggles with mental health and the, you know, the sort of honor belly of this show also is to talk about awareness and mental health and we forget that even the people that are supposed to be looking over us have mental health issues. That's true. It's really unfortunate to me that that happened. I also, you know, learning your story by reading your book and talking to you. You know, everybody is a product of their story.

Speaker 1:

And you're a very amazing woman. You've done amazing things which I'm sure we'll get into here. But, um, yeah, it's just it's interesting to me that that that happens.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, it's it's it's certainly unfortunate is an understatement. Um, you know, but I got the consequence. I got the consequences of the belief system about what it means to be dyslexic. And then the teachers and their shortcomings. That's not really fair to a six-year-old. So if my mother was here she'd say life isn't fair, ellen.

Speaker 1:

Life is not fair. Life is not fair, it's definitely messy.

Speaker 2:

It is, it is, and I certainly had that defiant streak in me as well. Um, and then my father especially fostered it. We used to have a mantra, and our mantra was prove them wrong, ellen prove them wrong.

Speaker 1:

You know, you can do it and your father, I think you went. You did knolls I got. I'm trying to jog my memory.

Speaker 2:

Outward Bound.

Speaker 1:

Outward Bound. Yeah, you have all these sort of things that you've done in your life and it sounds like at Pivotal Pieces, it sounds like a little bit of a roller coaster. Yes, you pick yourself up, something brings you down. You pick yourself up, something brought you down and you did all these sort of activities like outward bound. But not only did you do these activities, you you really elegantly write about what you gained from it from a from a personal perspective, a mental health perspective.

Speaker 1:

But you also kind of dominated in a lot of the activities you you took the lead.

Speaker 1:

you challenged yourself, like which I mean, can you, can you describe to me a little bit you've, you're, you know you're, you're living this life where people keep trying to beat you down, you've got low self esteem and then you walk into these situations where you know you've got to step up. And was it the people that you were with, or was it just like you? Was it the counselors, like what was sort of happening in those situations that your father was encouraging to put yourself in that were bringing you out of this sort of funk, I guess I'll call it.

Speaker 2:

Right, right, there were. There was a couple things going on. You know, especially the outward bound example is really great. But what my dad did was he instilled really instilled that pattern of get out there, challenge yourself, learn, grow and persevere. And I could take that learning to persevere and bring that into the classroom. That's how I survived in the classroom. To me, outward bound and you know, rock climbing, rappelling, that stuff is easy Piece of cake compared to being in a classroom.

Speaker 1:

The first rappel though, is always a little difficult. The first one yes, I poop my pants.

Speaker 2:

It is pretty and I did describe my experience in the book. So yes, I was very frightened, I was terrified, as a matter of fact, but he did it. But to me, even facing that fear was easier than what I faced in the classroom.

Speaker 1:

Really.

Speaker 2:

Yes, and the stress. I wouldn't say fear as much as the stress and the way other people were treating me and it was the one place I had success and where I could build my self-esteem and self-confidence. I could do that outside of the classroom and then I had to learn to take that inside of the classroom. Now, with that said, there was a lot of trauma going on there and a lot of trauma going on there and a lot of trauma repeated in itself and that, over time, just chips away at your self-esteem and your self-worth. So, even though I was doing.

Speaker 1:

Kids are mean too. Kids can be mean.

Speaker 2:

Kids can be very cruel, Very mean, Very cruel. You know I endured two years of nasty bullying. We're talking six, seven years old. It got so bad the parents had to get involved and the parents were. Fortunately they were all friends and all knew each other. It was a small community, but that's what it took to get it to stop. And then, even when it stopped, I was still an outcast. They couldn't force them to be my friends.

Speaker 1:

Sure.

Speaker 2:

But they knew they couldn't get away with bullying me anymore. But they could ignore me and they could shun me and do everything to exclude me is probably the best word.

Speaker 1:

So you were very, very alone. Did you have a few friends?

Speaker 2:

I did, yeah, I did, and fortunately, you know, um, when I talk about fishing with Dad. We had a summer home on Fire Island, and so we were there from the end of school to Labor Day weekend, so I got to get out of that community and get away from it.

Speaker 1:

That's good. I've heard about this magical place. My ex-wife spent a lot of time in Fire Island. She's from New York.

Speaker 2:

Oh, okay, okay, it is a wonderful place Sounds very bohemian. It depends which town. Every community on Fire Island is very unique, so it really depends on where you are. That's probably the best way to put it.

Speaker 1:

So that's good that you got away. Did you have friends then that you spent the summer with?

Speaker 2:

I did. Well, I also had extended family and there were three generations of the Bush family on Fire Island. So we knew everybody and everybody knew us and people would say to me they're like, okay, whose kid are you? I say I'm Bob and Ellen's oldest.

Speaker 1:

Oh, okay, cause I had two cousins and my sister when you say the Bush family, you're talking about Ellen Bush family or the Bush family?

Speaker 2:

No, no, no, my family Okay.

Speaker 1:

In my mind. I just went to the Bush family. I'm like that's cool, that's kind of funny.

Speaker 2:

I never even thought of that. So my name is spelled B-U-S-C-H, and that's the German spelling, and the B-U-S-C-H. And that's the German spelling and the B-U-S-H. President Bush, that is actually the English spelling. That's the difference between the two names. But yes, I had three generations. My grandparents were there, my cousins, aunt and uncle, and so there were a lot of us around, so that was a community I felt very much at home and very welcomed and taken care of A place to recharge. Yes, and I could escape from school and that entire community.

Speaker 1:

You know, I've, I just I, I I understand to some extent. I just I grew up in a small town and I just I remember some of the kids that got bullied pretty hard. I was always sort of in the middle, I guess. I wasn't a bully and I wasn't in either end, but I watched it happen, which made me a little guilty, by association, I guess. But we're kids, but there were definitely mean kids.

Speaker 1:

Mean kids were like, even you know, having an empathetic soul, you were watching from the sidelines, you're like wow, and. And you tell this story and in it sounds like to me that when you were very athletic and you played sports, and even on the sports teams, even though you were participating- and helping win and all these things that even your team members couldn't come bring themselves to, to accept you into the tribe and yep, which is which to me is very rare.

Speaker 1:

I mean, my experience in high school is that at some point high school like if you were on sports, you, it didn't matter who you were.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

That you kind of came to. So that's to be honest with you, that's fucking tough.

Speaker 2:

It is tough, yeah, yeah, I was deeply wounded and you know, when we get used to our wounds, I don't think we understand what we're really carrying around, until we dive into it and start to work on it.

Speaker 1:

Most people don't unpack it ever.

Speaker 2:

Right.

Speaker 1:

I think I started unpack mine in my 40s. Okay, I'm 43.

Speaker 1:

Sure, sure, and so it's interesting to. It's very interesting to read your book and I encourage everybody to read it. We're going to keep talking about it. But I want to do another plug, because it's it's just. You write it in a way that we can sort of understand what you're going through and um, and it's not all low self-esteem and blah blah. It's a book about empowerment. So at what point, you know? So obviously we've sort of framed your childhood was rough, mom and dad were awesome, and then you go off to college. Is that what happens next? And then you want to talk about that journey, sure.

Speaker 2:

Well, by the time I got to college, I was mainstreamed in college and I didn't need any. I needed maybe a little bit to support services with proofreading papers and things like that, but that was it.

Speaker 1:

And where did you go to college?

Speaker 2:

I went to it was Johnson State College and now it's Northern Vermont University.

Speaker 1:

Okay.

Speaker 2:

So very small college up in Johnson Vermont, about halfway between Burlington and the New Hampshire border, so pretty far north.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's up there, don't you know?

Speaker 2:

Yes, it is.

Speaker 1:

You're talking to a Wisconsin kid.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, I loved being in college. I excelled, I played soccer, so I continued for one year. Excelled, I played soccer, so I continued for one year. And also I found my love of skiing, which is why I live here in Colorado now. But probably the most important thing happened was I I know we talked about this a little bit I met a boy. I had a boyfriend who was a pretty extraordinary guy.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, he sounds like it.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, and he saw through the low self-esteem and he saw all that potential and he really supported me and really coached me and he honestly loved me. And that would turn out to be critical for me. 20 years down the road, ish, and I got to be in a healthy relationship with a man and every time I looked at him I knew he loved me. Every single time I could just see it. And he was in the military. He went from college back to active duty. He'd been an enlisted man, you know, moving towards becoming an officer, and you have to have a bachelor's degree to become an officer in most cases, I think. And so that relationship came to an end and that's fine. Military relationships are very different and they're very hard and so, you know, both go our separate ways. And then, years later, I got married. But what I didn't know is that I was marrying a narcissist. And what I also didn't know was that I was marrying a narcissist. And what I also didn't understand is that he targeted me.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you need to tell this story in detail because I think it's um, it's sort of your textbook.

Speaker 2:

It's, it's a warning, yeah, and and let the women, yeah, and the men.

Speaker 2:

And it took me a long time to figure this out and to really understand it. If you have low self-esteem and low self-worth, there are predators out there and they are looking for you and I know that might seem scary or alarmist, but it's true and they particularly prey on low self-esteem women in a heter, you know, in a heterosexual relationship because you're not going to fight back and you're going to take it and the narcissistic relationship tends to be and I'm not a mental health professional, a little disclaimer here, little disclaimer here there tends to be a very common MO and it starts with love bombing and then a rush to marriage. When I got married it was 13 months from first date to marriage. Wow, way too fast.

Speaker 1:

How old were you?

Speaker 2:

I was 35. Okay.

Speaker 1:

So there's the society pressure Always gotta have those babies.

Speaker 2:

yeah, you know, 35 for a woman you're starting to get, you're in trouble. Yeah, you're in big trouble.

Speaker 1:

So it was like oh, okay and I'm sure he told you he wanted to have kids and do all this stuff and yep, and he already.

Speaker 2:

He had been married before and he he had a son who is a lovely man, he's a great guy, and so it looked like all the pieces were in place. He even talked about how he would take his dad to church, but what I would come to learn is that he didn't take his dad to church to go and worship with his dad. He took his dad to church to show people that he was doing it and how it looked from the outside. That's narcissistic behavior. That's the difference between the two. So here I am in this marriage and it's a very slow, methodical process to gaslight somebody and manipulate them and control them, and I was committed to my marriage.

Speaker 1:

And at this point I don't want you to lose your thoughts. Sure, Going into the relationship getting married, were you at sort of an up in terms of your self-esteem? Have you got, had you built more of a foundation around it and feeling good about yourself and empowered? And and that's where he found you and intersected with you.

Speaker 2:

just so we have context you know it's a, that's a great question and uh no, you know I was so focused on finding a husband and getting married because that's what you're supposed to do, I think. You know, I think I was probably in this middle level with low self-esteem. It was always there and plaguing me and he saw it too, which is why he picked me. Sure so, and I knew I was settling. I knew I was settling and that was a very conscious thought, um, but I really didn't believe that I deserved any better. That was the low self-esteem message in my head. This is as good as it's going to get. Ellen, you might want to grab this guy, so does that answer your question?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it does. Yeah, of course. So you end up in this, you end up and starts gaslighting you. And where does it go from there?

Speaker 2:

Oh, it just goes downhill, it spirals downhill and the gaslighting and manipulation and the control just gets worse and worse and worse and it's wearing. And that's the part of the methodology is to just wear on you, wear you down, wear you down, wear you down. He made some terrible mistakes. He ended up bankrupting us Now. He inherited quite a bit of money from his father and, when all was said and done, he blew $2 million in assets and I tried like hell to stop it every step of the way and it was kind of like whatever I asked for, he would do the exact opposite, because that would be hurtful to me. I felt like a psychological chew toy and you know, when we were dating and early on in the marriage, he promised me all these things and he duped me. And yes, and I want people to hear that and it's not hard for me to say anymore because it's the truth I got duped and it happens to a lot of people. Narcissistic personalities are very, very good actors.

Speaker 1:

Well, they learn their whole life to act.

Speaker 2:

Exactly.

Speaker 1:

They have empathy and they don't know. Yeah, it happens to men and women it does and it's terrible it is.

Speaker 2:

It's awful. In fact, there was another podcast I was on with a gentleman, um, who is was in a narcissistic marriage. He's just recently divorced but he's doing a podcast and he's talking about it from um the men's side. It's called dimming the gas light.

Speaker 1:

Dimming the gas light.

Speaker 2:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

That's a great title.

Speaker 2:

It's a great exactly, um, but until I sat down and talked with him and a few other men, I really had no idea how many men are experiencing this kind of abuse as well. I was really stunned. Uh, so it, so it's. You know, so often we know the statistics. You know women get abused, and that's very true, and it is a larger problem for women, but it's also happening to men.

Speaker 1:

Sure.

Speaker 2:

It absolutely is.

Speaker 1:

I mean, you escaped right, so there was physical abuse. There was one incident, I mean the story from my point, from my point of view, um, or the way I took it is. I mean, it's, it's very dramatic. It's very I. I mean I can't putting myself in your shoes, like it was about it all the the whole, everything he could throw at you. He threw at you the bankruptcy, just the financial stress, the anxiety I'm sure everything was through the roof and then the physical abuse set in.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, but you did escape. So do you want to talk a little bit about that? Sure.

Speaker 2:

Well, just to go back to one thing, there was only one incident of physical abuse, and that was something I actually had to hide from my father.

Speaker 1:

You never told him, I never told him because I know what he would have done. Yeah.

Speaker 2:

The two of them would have went shark fishing.

Speaker 1:

Emotional abuse also leaves scars.

Speaker 2:

It does, it does. The two of them would have went shark fishing and only one would have come back.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, your dad was a veteran, right.

Speaker 2:

He was an Army veteran and he would not have tolerated it.

Speaker 1:

I really enjoyed the stories you told about your parents.

Speaker 2:

They just sounded wonderful they were. Rest in peace and.

Speaker 1:

I know you've lost both of them now, so I'm sorry.

Speaker 2:

Well, thank you, and you know, my sister and I used to joke that we sat up in heaven and picked them out, so, but yeah, so there was an incident of violence and I just want to, you know, kind of clarify this a little bit. I called him on his BS and told him that I knew that he duped me and that he was a liar.

Speaker 2:

And that's and that's when he came after me and that was terrifying and I didn't understand. You know, I went into that. What they call the gray zone, which is when you're and I had a long talk with my coach, who's a retired FBI agent, who I wrote about in one of the last chapters of the book, and he explained to me was that when you're really threatened in a life-threatening situation, the reptilian brain part of our brain takes over and conscious thought gets shut down, and this is a normal function of a life-threatening situation. And that's what happened to me. It happened and after we separated and moved apart from each other, he went and called the police and tried to blame it on me and then he made the mistake of telling me prior to this that the same thing happened with his ex-wife.

Speaker 1:

Oh really.

Speaker 2:

So this is now a pattern on his behalf, and he called the police on his ex-wife as well. He should have never told me that, because now I know it's a pattern.

Speaker 1:

Well, I mean sure it's a pattern. There's probably girlfriends too that are in there. I'm a little curious. I'm assuming he's still alive, I assume. So I mean the book's out.

Speaker 2:

Sure, I mean you don't use his name or any way. There's no. No, I'm sure I guess you could.

Speaker 1:

But, um, you know, like I, I just think it's, I think what you've written and telling your story is just, is just so powerful. I thank you, I so you escape, you escaped this, this relationship. Yeah, and from there, and he moved in with your, you moved back in.

Speaker 2:

My parents took me in. Yeah, yeah, they really took me in.

Speaker 1:

And this is where I, this is where you start to go on this journey, sort of of of recovery, and I want to make sure that people that you get to sort of tell this. So there's stories of training with navy steels and in crossfit and all these things you start to do kind of. After this you, you reignite with, you reunite with your past partner, the, the gentleman that you fell in love with, which sounds like very true love, which very, very, very significant, and I also the maturity around that love too, in that story is, is is an interesting story that you tell to the decisions that you guys make.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it makes me sad that you're not, so you're not together still, but there was obviously reasons for that. But I think it's great that you've experienced true love, which I think real love, not true love true love, love is like rom-com type stuff, but like right, real love, trusting relationship, and I think a lot of people probably don't, yeah, experience that sort of love.

Speaker 1:

It sounded like he was a really, really caring gentleman and there's circumstances for why you guys aren't together. But yeah, I want to move. We're about 40 minutes in. I do want to start to move into sort of your second life or the sort of the recipe for this how you got to where you are now, and then I want to make sure we you tell us what's important, you're going to do from here on sure what you're doing now. So yeah, kind of, if you can tell us that journey.

Speaker 2:

Yeah. So I realized when I got out I was so traumatized I was driving through stop signs and red lights I mean I could barely function. I knew I was in trouble and I needed help and I started working with a life coach and therapists and started to put my life back together. And it took a good 10 years and I have been absolutely committed to that. I have been committed to my emotional health. I have been committed to my mental health.

Speaker 2:

You know, one of the points I want to make is I see so many people who are so afraid to open that box and it's mission critical that you do. I was in such a terrible state that I was willing to do anything to feel better and to get better, because I wasn't willing to live life how I was living anymore and I knew I had to go to those scary places. I knew I had to understand how I got into that marriage, why I had two stalkers, why I had been dealing with bullies all of my life and not just in school. But I had managers who were bullies, who were just awful, awful people.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, bullies sometimes grow up to be adults.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, sometimes yeah, and they don't learn something different. Fuckers yeah, bullies sometimes grow up to be adults yeah, sometimes yeah, and they don't learn something different.

Speaker 2:

Yeah absolutely so. A lot of work, a lot of introspective work. Crossfit was a really important piece for me, just getting fit and feeling better. You know, when you go through something like this and you survive, you've got to recover, and it's not just an emotional or mental recovery, it's a physical recovery too. And with CrossFit, because it's so intense, it helped me get really reconnected with my own body, because when you're traumatized, you feel separated from your body, sure, or you feel like you're out of body. So that really helped there.

Speaker 2:

But I was working on all these different parts of myself. I was working on the physical, the emotional, the mental, the spiritual and listening to my intuition, which was telling me I needed to do these things. And again, I was just so desperate I was willing to do whatever it took. And when I got started, I started to feel better and I kept going and I started to feel better and things were releasing and I was feeling better and I took off 25 pounds and I was feeling better. So it became a snowball rolling downhill. Snowball rolling downhill, but it was a positive snowball.

Speaker 2:

And then I got to the point where I just wanted more and I kind of thought, well, what's the next step for me, and that's when I stumbled on to the Mark Devine's program. Mark is a retired commander, a retired Navy SEAL, and he has a training program for civilians. And I went to one of his events December of 2016, as a matter of fact and changed my life. 72 hours changed my life and I thought, well, I want more of that. So I kept going back and I think I've been to six or seven of his events and now I'm in a coach training program his coach training program but that program took me from a survivor and from healing into thriving.

Speaker 2:

And then I've also done some training with, as I mentioned before, coach Dennis, retired FBI agent. I did some private coaching with him, one-on-one, and then I did some in-person training with him. He put me through 22 hours of self-defense training in two days Wow, it was intense. But I also knew that's what I was signing up for, and when it's a coach who you've known for a while, I knew him before I even did private coaching with him, so we were already friends. So there was a level of trust that was already there. So I knew that I was in a safe place and that if he was going to push me I was going to be okay.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I mean the stories you tell about these activities are obviously going to much more detail in the book. Right right, you're being a little modest right now. You tended to take charge and own it and become one of the more dominant people in the classes and I just think it's really cool. Um, can you tell us I mean just just to plug cause?

Speaker 1:

it sounds like, maybe you're going to be, you're going to move into some coaching. What is? What? Is it coaching? I guess what's the? In terms of what's the gentleman's name, the seal um commander Mark Devine. Mark Devine what? What's the what's the premise of the program, what's the sort of outcome that you're shooting for? And then, as a coach, what are you going to be doing in the future for other people?

Speaker 2:

Sure, well, I want to teach what I've learned, and by coaching it's a way of doing that. Um, and you know, I moved from disempowered to empowered and now sharing that with other people. So, but to answer your question, the premise of the program, of the Mark's coaching program, is it? There's a whole host of tools, but the basis of it is it's called the five mountain training and you work on all parts of yourself simultaneously. So you work on the physical, the emotional, the mental, the spiritual and the intuitional side of things. And, like I said, there's a whole host of tools. We don't have time to get into them right now and Mark has written, I think, five New York Times bestsellers.

Speaker 1:

Wow.

Speaker 2:

He has in-person programs. He has online training, so I'm still learning how to utilize these tools. It also includes he's really, really big on breathwork and yoga and he's trained in about seven different breathwork yoga practices. I should say so he's really combining Eastern philosophies as well as Navy SEAL training, which is a heck of a combination.

Speaker 1:

Is he here in Denver?

Speaker 2:

No, he's in San.

Speaker 1:

Diego. Okay, not a bad place to live? Yeah, exactly.

Speaker 2:

So that's the basis of the coaching program and, like I said, it includes breath work, yoga, and these are tools that I would bring to a coaching client and we'd find ways to utilize them and how to bring them into their life so that they get the benefit. You know what I've noticed and I just want to make this one point because I think it's really important what's happened to me now, because I came from this place of, as a child, learning to persevere through challenges, I have now brought that into my life and it's with me constantly. So I feel as though I'm in this constant state of challenge, growth, transformation, rinse and repeat, and I'm always looking for a new challenge. So recently and sometimes I second-guess myself whether I should have taken on this challenge I'm learning telemark skiing, which is really really hard to do.

Speaker 1:

That makes my knees hurt just thinking about it.

Speaker 2:

It's harder on the quads than the knees, and I actually joined a club at Breck, so I should say breckenridge, because people around the country are going to be not just locals, right we got a lot of colorado listeners yeah, um, there's a telemark club at breckenridge and it's instructor led, so, um, we have 10 saturdays together and I joined last year and really, really struggled, but I knew this was the place to learn, because I needed to be with instructors to learn this, because it's so hard to learn and you've been skiing your whole life. Since high school, yeah.

Speaker 1:

And you do backcountry skiing, and you do all this stuff, and you do some instructing too, don't you?

Speaker 2:

I was a ski instructor for five years. I taught in the kids program at attatash bear peak back in new hampshire.

Speaker 1:

So nice, that was fun so a little bit of a time left. I want to make sure, before I move on, to like the sort of the sort of the conclusion here is there anything else you want to talk about in sort of your past and your journey in the book? And then I kind of want to take the last 10 to 15 minutes here and talk about where you're at now, sort of like how you approach. I think, well, let's let you do that first.

Speaker 1:

If there's anything else you want to sort of talk about with the book and your journey, and then we'll get into that.

Speaker 2:

I think the most important things that I have learned is the power of breathwork and a consistent breathwork practice. Many people know the term box breathing. If not, it's real easy to find I don't know.

Speaker 1:

Okay, I was married to like a yogi, but I should have known this.

Speaker 2:

I'll share my app with you when we're done. Cool so, and the other thing that I've learned is that unresolved trauma has the potential to destroy your life and kill you, and that's the truth. And if you're carrying around a lot of unresolved trauma, you are hurting yourself, you're holding yourself back and you're probably putting it on to your family members and loved ones. Sure, and please do not be afraid to face it. It is so much better to face it. Take it on with credentialed. Please be careful who you work with with credentialed therapists.

Speaker 2:

There's a lot of kooks out there and there's a lot of cult leaders out there, and if you're dealing with this, know that you are vulnerable and those people are looking for you. So stay in the mainstream. Please stay in the mainstream and stay with credentialed, appropriately credentialed therapists and mental health professionals. Um, but the most important thing you can do is face your trauma, face whatever is holding you back, because when you do that, you take over, and if you don't, trauma is in charge and running your life. And the question is do you want trauma running your life or you want to run your life?

Speaker 1:

yeah, and that's. That's a it's a great way to put it um, so that fast forwarding to now yeah, to ellen, the ellen bush. And now I did want to ask one question because I do a lot of my listeners are. Now I did want to ask one question because I do a lot of my listeners are rolling solo and single and dating and stuff I'm not going to talk about your dating life, but I'm.

Speaker 1:

How do you reckon? I had this question that I wrote down and I thought it was a good one. I'm patting myself on the back here. So you've experienced two types of love in your life. You've experienced healthy, healthy love and you've experienced narcissistic love. For the simple terms, how, how do you approach relationships now? I mean, I'm assuming you date or you're yeah, you're I don't know if you're in a relationship or not, but like how do you approach it?

Speaker 2:

Um, I watch people's behavior very closely, um, and I do not ignore the red flags, and, as women especially, we tend to be pretty good at ignoring those red flags. And that's where working on the intuitional side of yourself is really important, because you learn to listen to your gut and when your gut is talking to you, pay attention. It's really simple.

Speaker 1:

Cut and run, yeah exactly.

Speaker 2:

You know, I think one of the things too, one of the points I didn't date for a long time and I didn't want to. I wanted to work on me and I knew that if I didn't work on me I was just going to attract the same type of man, and I had no way was I going to do that again. I just knew that that was not something I was going to accept. But I knew the responsibility was on me to heal and to face whatever I needed to face, and then I could begin to attract the type of man that I wanted to attract.

Speaker 2:

Yeah, that I was worthy of and worthy of.

Speaker 1:

We keep going back to the. I always keep reminding people when I post it on my socials. It's all about the relationship with yourself.

Speaker 2:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

Yes, it's the most cliche thing anybody could say, it's so easy to pick from all the things of quotes, but it's. It's really true that if you, if you don't understand yourself, awareness to me is the most important thing. It's the journey I've been on for two years. It's I. It's so important to have external awareness and internal awareness, which they're both equally as important, particularly internal awareness.

Speaker 2:

Right, right.

Speaker 1:

Understand yourself, understand your, your weaknesses, your insecurities, address them. It's not easy. Remember that. I'm sure you do too. We, we all. Two steps forward, one step back. We always. I'm not perfect. Every day I don't wake up powerful and empowered. Every day right, right.

Speaker 2:

Well, one of the things I've learned from mark is better and better every day, better and better every way. One percent.

Speaker 1:

I love it.

Speaker 2:

Just one percent micro goals and one percent, and this is part of the coaching methodology. I appreciate that, yeah.

Speaker 1:

I think that's a great way to to sort of wrap this up. I always end my podcast and you sort of did it again, but I'm going to, I'm going to ask it again. I always ask my guests. I'm going to ask it again. Sure, I always ask my guests. The last question I ask is if you had some advice for, since you're a woman, do you have any advice for younger women out there today? Or basically, anything you would say to your younger self?

Speaker 2:

Oh gosh, you know, I think one of the things that we haven't covered is, I think an independent, high self-esteem woman, high self-worth, is very attractive to good men, you know it's. I think you got to really understand yourself, to understand why you're attracting the kind of person you're attracting into your life, and sometimes those can be friends as well. It doesn't necessarily limit itself to romantic relationships. So take a look around you. Why are these people part of your life? I mean, obviously, family is different. Um, we didn't necessarily have a choice there. You're born to where you were born.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, you don't have a choice of your family but you do have a choice of how you deal with your family. I think that um some people have are in situations where they probably need to set boundaries with their family. I think that um some people have are in situations where they probably need to set boundaries with their family, right.

Speaker 2:

And that's healthy too, in those circumstances and boundaries. Oh, that's one of my favorite words.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's probably episode two. I could do boundaries all day long. I enjoy, I enjoy my new found abilities to create boundaries and. I and I and I still struggle with it.

Speaker 1:

But I am getting a lot better at it. Um, so I have. I could ask you a million more things and I know you have a lot more to talk about, but I definitely want to try to keep this to an hour. I, ellen, I really appreciate you being on the show. I really enjoyed your book. I encourage everybody to go out and buy it and support her, and I know you also support um several causes, particularly dyslexia and some other things.

Speaker 1:

So I'll make sure that we direct people to your website and to your book and um, your socials and anything else you want me to share with everybody your home address, your phone number and, as always, I appreciate you and I can't do this without you. So please, please, engage with me. I want to see you on my socials, dave Hopper, and at Owning Alone. I'm also on the TikTok now, believe it or not, and you can always email me at joel at owningalone. I'm also on the tick tock now, believe it or not, and you can always email me at Joel at owning alone podcastcom. I want to hear your stories. If you think you're a good potential guest, reach out to me, engage. I also have a podcast happy hour every other week. You can find me on meetup. And again, I appreciate you. I appreciate you, ellen. I hope we stay in touch and with that the Sasquatch is out. Thank you,

Head Shot

Joel Poppert

Host