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Situationships, Drunk Dates and Unsolicited Pics ft. Kayla King in the Lounge

• Joel Poppert • Season 1 • Episode 10

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Ever stumbled upon a date that left you questioning the very fabric of reality? Kayla King joins us at the Love Laugh Lounge to swap such tales, leaving no stone unturned as we navigate the tempestuous seas of modern dating. From the outright comical to the downright sobering, we dissect the modern nuances of the dating scene. This episode, brimming with candid exchanges, will have you nodding in agreement one minute and gasping in disbelief the next, as we strip back the layers of single life with humor and unapologetic honesty.

Hold on to your hats, because we're not just skimming the surface of texting faux pas and the enigma of communicating in a digital age. Our banter leads us through the minefield of grammatical gaffes and the art of the perfectly-timed text joke, all while sharing horror stories that might have you think twice about that flirty GIF. With Kayla's vocal prowess and my musical aspirations in the mix, we're harmonizing the conversation with a touch of personal passion, proving that there's more to us than our swipe-worthy profiles.

Wrap up your day with our deep dive into the heart of modern relationships, where we scrutinize the concept of 'situationships' and 'friends with benefits' through the lens of our own colorful experiences. Drawing from the wisdom of attachment theory and insightful literature, we broach the tender topic of rejection and the balancing act of expectations versus reality in love. Our heart-to-heart might just reshape your view on connection and contentment, whether you're laughing over a shared dating misadventure or pondering the possibility of a situationship in your own life. Join Kayla and I for an episode that's a genuine mosaic of mirth, musings, and modern love lore.

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Thanks for joining the Owning Alone community, I certainly appreciate you!

Speaker 1:

Hey all you lovely single humans out there. It's your favorite middle-aged Sasquatch, you know the one that's small giant with the epic beard game and your host Recording live from Denver, colorado. You have joined the Love Laugh Lounge, the comedic subseries of the Owning Alone podcast, the Festivists of Dating, and a place to air your grievances, share war stories, and where we typically give bias advice, dating advice that's not backed up by any data whatsoever. So, without further ado, welcome back to the Lounge y'all. Joining me in the Lounge today is Kayla King I love your name, by the way, thanks.

Speaker 1:

A beautiful, intelligent, 37 year old single woman, born and raised in New Hampshire, moved out to Colorado for a boyfriend nearly 14 years ago, and I'm sure there's a story there that you may or may not want to share. She has a master's in special education and is currently working as a corporate specialist for a woman owned filing organization here in Denver, colorado, and will soon be leading their business development activities. She enjoys snuggling with her dog, cooking for herself and her friends, wine and game nights, paddle boarding and watching the same movies over and over again. Damn, you're a catch, kayla. Welcome to the Lounge. Did I do justice here? Is there anything else you'd like to share about yourself before the festivist begins.

Speaker 3:

Um, no, I think I think you did well. Um, I also uh, one big part of me that I always forget to tell people that everyone in New Hampshire remembers me for is I'm a fairly accomplished vocalist. So when you were doing like my checks and stuff like that, I was like, oh my gosh, I'm reminiscing to my past Do?

Speaker 1:

you want to sing for us? No, not today. I'm not warmed up. I actually didn't know that about you. That's pretty, are you still seeing?

Speaker 3:

Um, no, but I am, for those listening actively looking for a classical vocal vocal coach in the Lakewood golden area.

Speaker 1:

So oh, that'd be fun. Yes, I've actually thought about picking up the piano. Oh. I read an article about a woman, a 70 plus 70 something year old woman, who lost her husband, and Mark Manson did like a thing on it and she ended up living to be in her 90s and became basically an orchestra level pianoist after her husband died in her 70s.

Speaker 1:

And it was like well, so for all of us middle-aged people that are like, oh, I'm too old to fucking learn something, um, that story really resonated with me and I've always wanted to learn how to play the piano, um, or some instrument, and never really gave it a shot. So that's not my long list of things to do so. I encourage it Go ahead and maybe I can play piano for you sometime.

Speaker 3:

Oh, maybe I'm gonna get better again, do you?

Speaker 1:

dance too.

Speaker 3:

I did dabble in dance in college and I actually used to take a couple of classes here in Colorado. But nothing crazy. I've never performed dance before.

Speaker 1:

I performed, but never for money. I got some happy people that have seen me dance. It's not organized, but I've been told I'm pretty agile for a small diet Fantastic, well, that's awesome and I and I appreciate you taking the time today to come on the lounge. Um, I think you're a great guest for this and I always enjoy having having women on the show because you guys, just you, you all just kind of deal with a relatively more ridiculous side of the dating spectrum than men not to mean not to like discount men's experiences with dating, but women tend to have just funnier stories. Some are just, some are more disturbing and all the things. So, um, let's start with like, how, how it is it out there in the wild? How, how is your dating? How long you've been single? First, I guess it would be the question Um, yeah, Um, I've been single for about two years now.

Speaker 3:

Um, I had a relationship for about a year and a half prior to that and um I have. I feel like in the last two years, I have met the gambit of of men. Um the spectrum the full spectrum to from like I don't know, super sweet, kind, but like also like socially awkward, but they totally mean well, um, all the way to raging alcoholic. Uh, scary, scary situation where I had like a sugar. So yeah, it's been an interesting two years in the, in the dating scene for sure.

Speaker 1:

I've had at least one pretty serious alcoholic show up, and I like drinking too, but I don't, I don't tend to um lose it anymore, you know. I think, we talked about that previously like being in a situation. For me it's not scary, right? I'm a six foot five man. Imagine what it's like to have a man drunk out of their mind and and be in that position.

Speaker 3:

It's a very vulnerable, disturbing situation to put a woman in so randomly showing up at your house, passing out on your couch, and then having to drive him home to his mother's later that night. So yeah, wow.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, wow.

Speaker 3:

That was an interesting evening.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I, you know I always appreciate when, when women can put that stuff aside and keep going out there and and we're not all on that spectrum, um, but yeah, it's, it's, it's disturbing, um, I've been single for about two years, too Divorced for about two years. I had a little bit of a thing, like about a year ago, um, but other than that it's just been. You know first and second dates and you know out there dealing with Denver and you know how it is. Everybody I'm very in tune with, like the whole national dating scene. I listen to the podcast and keep a pulse on it. For for the podcast, I'm also just genuinely curious. I find dating satisfying and also intriguing, but I think the I think everybody's just like everybody's city is the worst place to date.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I feel like everyone feels that way too.

Speaker 1:

And it's just, everybody seems so frustrated. I, I get frustrated, but I don't. I don't carry it for very long and sometimes I just take breaks. I think what I need to do is remind myself to give people more, a little bit more of a chance. Is is probably what I need to do, but that's what my therapist is for. Yes, what are your? Um? So you've been dating, so you've been out. You've been single now for two years and like what is what are some of your like? Like what's your ideal person? You know, like I know, you probably don't have a checklist. You seem like a reasonable person, but like what's your ideal like person to date? I guess?

Speaker 3:

Um, I one thing I was just telling my friend the other day what I've been battling recently is, um, I've been going on days with men and the conversation prior to has either been fantastic or a little bit like short and abrupt, and that could just be like certain people just don't like texting or you know things like that, um, but when I get in front of them, I I'll be like in the middle of saying something because they asked me a question and then all of a sudden they interrupt me and have a full on monologue of what happened to them and I'm like you asked me the question, did you want me to answer it? So I'm finding, like you know, I'm getting interrupted a lot and I want to learn more about the person that's sitting in front of me genuinely, um, but it doesn't seem like they have a genuine want to learn about me.

Speaker 1:

That's frustrating. I think I'm a little guilty of that. Sometimes I get I have a lot more awareness around it. I've always been a talker and I like talking to. When I get anxious, I tend to just keep talking, and if anybody, if anybody leaves an opening in a conversation, I typically take it, and I think sometimes on dating too, I with dating, I tend I'll grab it and get awareness around it. I'm like, oh my God, I've been talking for the last five minutes and I've had people do that to me and it's frustrating for me, even though I'm doing it all the time. So we've definitely been called out on it and I can see why that's frustrated. You find that happens quite often, though.

Speaker 3:

I find that it's been happening more often than not.

Speaker 1:

Do you think it's nervousness?

Speaker 3:

It really could be. I honestly don't know.

Speaker 1:

Are they changing the conversation or they're answering their own question?

Speaker 3:

They're answering their own question.

Speaker 1:

That's fun.

Speaker 3:

And sometimes changing the conversation. But, same as you, I can get on a roll with talking sometimes and then I'll sit back and take a little bit of a breather, getting out of that focus point of what I'm saying and being like, oh wow, I've been talking for 10 minutes. I need to shut up and continue this conversation, and it's not even just with dating, it's with friendships and things like that, and sometimes I like to sit back and listen to my friends talk to me because maybe they need to vent about something. But at the same time, no one likes to be interrupted.

Speaker 1:

No, and particularly continuously. I wonder if it's nervousness to some extent, but I think that tends to be. Men do that, tend to do that more than women. I try to be conscious about it. If I'm drinking and I get a few drinks in me, I tend to lose a little bit of control of it. So there's past love laugh lounges where typically I've done these in the evening and the guests and I have been drinking and it's probably better to do this one in the afternoon. Probably better to do all my podcasts, not drinking, just because when I get a little bit buzz I tend to lose a little bit of awareness around talking. And there's this thing called the 80-20 rule in podcasting which I'm already failing at in this episode where I'm supposed to be talking 20% of the time and 80% of the time. This one's a little different, with it being sort of loungy.

Speaker 3:

That's also a sales tactic.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, right, yeah, this is so. Do you have any? I guess the term now is icks. Do you have any things that are like huge, like that are major turnoffs or yeah, I would say, I mean, this is my personal preference.

Speaker 3:

I wouldn't say this is for everyone, but I have a very keen sense of smell and if I can smell your breath across the table, that to me is kind of a horrible turnoff, because then I'm like I don't even want to imagine kissing this guy and I just start to get really nervous and then, yeah, thanks.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, that's the worst. I'm just fall apart Like halitosis.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and I need good oral hygiene.

Speaker 1:

I don't think that's an unreasonable request.

Speaker 3:

I don't think so, but I know certain people may or may not have access to health care in that way. So yeah. I mean.

Speaker 1:

I grow the dentist once a year. I don't know. I guess I've never been told I have bad breath. I mean I've had bad breath but like consistently no, I hope you tell me if I did. I've been drinking a lot of coffee this morning, but I try to brush my teeth. I know people that are, or at least in my past have known people that had halitosis.

Speaker 1:

And it's freaking terrible and there's no reason, there's no way. I have the same thing with smells. I am like I can like perfumes or the type of creams that women use. Some of them are huge turnoffs for me.

Speaker 3:

I get turned off. I really am very particular about women's perfume, Men's cologne I can smell men's cologne all day. Women's perfume I like it. I like have to pull my nose off my face to just have any comfort. I just start itching and my eyes start watering and getting scratchy.

Speaker 1:

I don't blame you. What is the deal with perfume? I guess I mean it goes back forever, right scents and stuff, but I mean I don't, I can't.

Speaker 1:

It just seems like such a gamble to me because it's the whole idea that perfumes incite some sort of reaction from men, I think. I don't know. I don't buy it because it doesn't. For me there's not like, oh, she smells so good. What it typically is, like some shampoos can take they're not but perfume is. It's particularly for people that have really good sensory around their nose like it's overwhelming. Our brains are attaching a stigma to that smell, like usually it's a situation where, like I don't, I'm not particularly attracted to the person and then I'm associating that smell with them and it's just accentuating some awareness around something I probably should acknowledge. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

But yeah, I mean, smells are an interesting thing. And then there's the weird ics that everybody has, which we don't all want to admit. Well, the chewing and the, the chewing or the grammar. I never understood the grammar thing, but some people it's like your and your and they're there and they're. They're.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, sometimes I'll pay attention to that. But because I do have a background in education, so kind of you know, if you don't know, you're there, there and theirs by now. But there are other things that I mix up, I do believe that I have a little bit of dyslexia. You know, in my brain I had a bit of a learning disability and it was uncovered during my master's program from my, the head of the special education department. But you know, like let's, let's pay attention to me. It's more about paying attention to like what you're doing and how you're presenting yourself. You know you want to people always talk about, you know, my generation of millennials being, and then the zenials now not being able to like speak in full sentences or full paragraphs or or watch full videos.

Speaker 3:

Yeah. Or watch full videos. You know everything is like one second long but have full conversations, written conversations. That is critical to you. Know writing scripts for movies, for plays, for you know songs like how. You know you listen to Cardi B and how she speaks, but she English is her second language, I'm pretty sure. But you think about the lyrics that she pumps out and all of her songs and you're like holy crap, like that came from her Cause. But I love Cardi B. I think she's hilarious.

Speaker 1:

I mean going back to the whole like before we meet texting thing.

Speaker 1:

This comes up a lot of my podcasts because I'm I've become this older man now and like a little bit of the. I used to love texting. I even used to enjoy talking on the phone. I hate both and I'm not good about it, and I feel like I've lost some opportunities of women because I I'm typically like hey, I'll answer whatever questions that make you comfortable enough to meet me. And then like let's meet. And then, once the date is set, I'm typically like I'm out, I texted a day before and I'm like hey, I'm just my, it's standard template, I'm checking in, looking forward to meeting you tomorrow at X. Blah, blah, blah.

Speaker 1:

What time I've had that backfire where, like, well, I didn't hear from you for a week. I didn't think you were interested. I don't know what to do about it because I, I I'm very maybe I'm just being stubborn, but I'm very. I just feel like things can go really wrong Texting back and forth with somebody you don't know and I'm a I'm a pretty humorous guy. I like to like joke around and you know jokes are all about body language and context and obviously text is just very it's very vanilla. It's very easy to take the wrong way. So give me thoughts on that.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, actually I was just thinking about a situation that I had happen a couple of weeks ago. So I was messaging this guy on Bumble and I didn't realize, like when we had matched he was in my area of Colorado when originally he's from Fort Collins, and I didn't see that on his profile when I liked him. So we started chit chatting and then he was. He was kind of being a little like in my face with certain things and I don't know if he was like joking or being sarcastic, because you can't hear tone when you're typing something out. And so I was like, okay, like you know, he could be just like a very outgoing person, like know exactly what he wants, and so he's being very upfront and blunt about things. And then he I was like, yeah, I have to, you know, head up to Windsor for a bridal shower. And he's like well, I live right there, why don't you meet me before? And I was like, well, you don't know what I have planned that day.

Speaker 3:

But I was like, well, you know, let me check my schedule. I might have to firm a few things up. And then he said I'd like to watch you firm a few things up. And I was like. Are you talking about your dick, sir? What, like, what? This is the first like sexual innuendo that you've said to me and we haven't even actually gotten there in our conversations to where I would feel comfortable joking about you Cause, to be honest with you, I am, my brain is like a 12 year old boy, like I can be the biggest perv in the world and it's funny and you know what. That's just me, but I blame it on having a lot of guy best friends in high school. Yeah, but like there's an appropriate time and place to introduce that.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's disrespectful.

Speaker 3:

Into a conversation and I was like okay, we're not where. Yeah, we're done with this, yeah.

Speaker 1:

I mean it's, it's a, it happens all the time for two women and it's the I mean I. I've always wondered if it works Like you throw enough shit against the wall and something sticks where some girl is like, oh sweet I'm, I'll be right over. I can't imagine it, would it just? It just doesn't work that way.

Speaker 3:

I mean it really just depends what the person's looking for. Like read the room. You know, I was having this conversation the other day with a friend of mine where she just got out of a relationship and is just on the dating apps to you know, again, just kind of throw shit at the wall and see what, see what's going on out there in the world. Again, she's been, she had been in a relationship for like seven years and she is a very sexually forward person and is okay with like we were talking before about situationships To me. I'm like no, like I would not give my phone number after the third message exchange because I've had men, you know, send me the dick pic and I'm like did I ask you for that? And what part of my? How are you today? Are you enjoying your week? So far? Lauren's a dick pic, but like some women are okay with it. So it's kind of you really have to like read the room, which is also difficult to do via text message.

Speaker 1:

But I guess my question would be, regardless of whether you're okay with it or not is it really moving the needle Like? Is it like the girls that want it? Are they like, oh my God, I'm that much more attracted to the person? Or is it like I don't know?

Speaker 3:

Not me. I'm not the right person to ask for that question.

Speaker 1:

I've yet to throw that kind of shit against the wall. I used to be more aggressive, where I'd try to get into sex talk earlier and in the conversation, a date, to feel things out, which, to be honest with you, tended to work okay. I've just, I've steered a little bit away from it for whatever reason. It's just. It's just, I don't know, I like having reasonable conversations. I'm trying to meet somebody that you know could go somewhere, whether it's a relationship or a solid situation ship or. You know, I've had enough one night stands, I think, in my 43 year old life to sort of hang up that hat and at least go on a couple dates, before not saying I'm not opposed to it, but I. One night stands are just, they are what they are. They're maybe a little bit better than masturbating, I don't know. So they're not terribly intimate.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, no, I mean. I would say like, if your intention is to be on these dating apps to date and meet someone you want to spend the rest of your life with, I would probably steer clear of the sexual innuendo and talk at least for the first date, until the first date, and really just get a feel for the person that's sitting in front of you, like what is she into? What are her likes and her dislikes? Does she bring up sex? If she does, cool, keep going with it.

Speaker 1:

Opening.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, like find your openings, but just be like a little bit more smart, because there are some people that have had experiences that you don't know about and if you bring something up, it could ultimately turn them off pretty quickly.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no, I agree, it's all about reading the room, I suppose. So that's a good transition into. I know you've got some horror stories. You want to share any of them the funny ones, the disturbing ones.

Speaker 3:

Oh, let's see the ones we shouldn't talk about, but we should.

Speaker 3:

So let's see, I think I may have told you this horror story. So this was quite a few years ago. I would say like seven or eight years ago. I was working downtown at a restaurant and I was working a night shift and I think I was going to get off shift around like 8.39. So this guy was like what are you up to tonight? And I said, oh, I'm doing this, but I might go out for a drink with some of my friends after. If you want to join, just something casual, it's like. I know it's not like a one-on-one date, but I'm pretty booked up this week. So if you want to come down, be happy to have you join us. And he was like, yeah, absolutely.

Speaker 3:

So I get off shift and he, I'm sitting at a table and I see this guy walk in. He has like headphones on, like big bulky headphones, and a backpack and he just like trudges right by the table. And I'm like I think that was him, you know, because you see pictures, you kind of like know what someone looks like. And like five minutes later he comes back and like walks up to the table and was like hey, what's up? Like not.

Speaker 3:

Hey, my name, I'm so-and-so like you know, it's so nice to meet you, so being present, so so, and just like, puts his backpack down, takes his headphones off and I'm like hi, and mind you, like I'm pretty sure all of his pictures were from like five years prior, because he did not look like any of his photos, which obviously I'm not giving any clues to what he looked like then versus what he looks like now. But guys, don't do that. Don't have past photos. If you had black, black hair back in the day and now you're like fully grayed or fully white, like just keep it real, keep it real with the public. Like this is the person that you're putting out in front. So that's a little tip.

Speaker 1:

So you got kittenfish.

Speaker 3:

I got kittenfished a little bit, so we start, you know, having some drinks and not gonna lie at this point in time, my alcohol tolerance was extremely high. I mean, anyone who works in a bar, you're gonna have an extremely high tolerance.

Speaker 3:

So we were all having drinks, we got around to shots, we ended up moving to another restaurant or it was like a bar, and then all of a sudden, he just like started getting a little bit emotional and I was like okay, like is everything okay? And he's like I don't know, I just I feel like I can't be here anymore and I'm like all right, like okay, like let's go, what do you need? Did you drive? And he was like I drove. And I'm like well, you definitely can't drive now because I know you had like four shots and six beers, so let's get you a new bar. And he's like no, I don't want to take a new bar. And I'm like well, what do you need? And he's like I want you to drive me home. So I drove him home and he cried the whole way home.

Speaker 1:

Wow, that's risky.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I don't know, I don't know. Anyways, drove him the whole way home down to Littleton.

Speaker 1:

Oh geez.

Speaker 3:

And so he drank four shots.

Speaker 1:

Sorry, rob, you drank four shots like six beers, and you drank what Like a couple beers maybe.

Speaker 3:

I had. I probably had like two margaritas and a shot from the whole night by you. He was blowing right by me Okay, I just wanted to give the audience that context.

Speaker 3:

Yeah no, that was like sorry, that was the context. So when I dropped him off, it was his parents' house and he was like you probably don't want to see me again, do you? And I was like to be honest, no, I don't. I said I really think that you need to get some mental health help, because this was not how I expected this night to go whatsoever. And there's absolutely nothing wrong with having mental health issues, nothing wrong with that. But like, don't put yourself in a situation to where you're falling apart in front of someone you just met because, one, that's not safe and two, it's just, it's not polite.

Speaker 1:

I mean it's surprising. To pee his pants in your car From Denver to Littleton is a long ways for somebody to drink that much.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

I agree that's a terrifying story and that's also I have I've had. Most of my crazy dating stories have been alcoholic related. Showed up to a date one time, this is a long time ago, where the girl was. It was like 530, it was like a happy hour. I'd worked downtown at the time and I show up and she's there with her friends.

Speaker 1:

It's like down when the mall was like cool it was like a long time ago, the Paramount, I think, where they were playing pool, and I'm like these are my friends. But I'm like, okay, cool, like I didn't realize it was that kind of date. She's wasted, just wasted, right. And then something happened to her cat, which she was, so there was all this drama. Cat got sick, which okay, and her friends were looking at me and I could see in their face that like, dude, you should just run. So anyway, she got really combated with me because she's like, oh, you're bald, I didn't realize you were bald and I'd never lied on my pictures.

Speaker 1:

I've been bald since I was 20. So, like I always make sure I have like a range of pictures. I'm like, well, yeah, I mean she'd picked up on that. So then I get irritated. I haven't even got my beer yet. I get my beer. She's like starts, like she's like a roller coaster, right, one minute. She's nice, one minute. She's mean I'm not soliciting any of this emotion and I was like, so I pounded my beer, you know, like a high school kid. It was like nice knowing he walked out of the bar. I wasn't there for more than 10 minutes. Oh gosh, how the fuck did I end up in this situation?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, oh God, no. So I had another experience. This is like, this is kind of different. So this was many years ago on plenty of fish, where when dating apps, like we're just starting to be the thing you know.

Speaker 3:

So this guy asked me, asked to meet me on a lunch date, like during his lunch hour, and I was like OK, like that would be first, cool, like let's do that. So I walk up to the restaurant and like the signage in front of the restaurant wasn't very clear as to like where the entrance was. So I was kind of like looking around, I was on the phone with him I was like I don't see where the entrance is. And he's like you're standing right in front of it and I'm like, ok, and I like look around. I'm like, ok, I kind of like see this door and I'm like, well, where are you If you can see me? And he's like walking toward me.

Speaker 3:

But I don't like necessarily recognize this guy as like the guy I've been talking to, just because he was so far away. So as he got closer and closer to me, he kept getting shorter and shorter. So, mind you, I'm 5'7". I like to wear heels, so that puts me around 5'11", 6' normally. So I had 2 and 1 half inch heels on. So I'm standing at a good 10, 10 and 1 half and this guy was probably like 5'0" and people please understand. I don't care how tall you are, but for my preferences dating, I tend to like men who are my above my height, just that's my complex.

Speaker 1:

There's no shame in that. That's pretty normal.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, that's my complex. It is what it is.

Speaker 1:

I tend to like to date women that are shorter than me.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, and that's fine. I mean, it's pretty hard to find a woman that might be taller than you, to be honest. So I was like you know what? I still have really great conversation with him. Let's go ahead, have this date. It's not like he lied to me. Heights were not posted at that point in time during the dating apps.

Speaker 3:

No, not on plenty of fish anyways. So I was like OK, had a great lunch date, we had good conversation. It lasted about 45 minutes. And I was heading home and he texted me and he's like oh my god, I had an amazing time. I'd love to meet with you again and me, being the honest person that I am, I said to be honest, I didn't really feel the chemistry. I probably I'm going to say no to a second date, but it was really great meeting you and having a conversation with you.

Speaker 3:

Mind you, I paid for my lunch too. Like I just went to go eat lunch with some guy that was going to pay for it and he ripped me a fucking new one. He was like you horrible person, you're a fucking bitch and just like went off on me assuming and I didn't even tell him you're shorter than me. I didn't say that at all, I just said I didn't feel the chemistry. And he went off about me being taller than him and all this stuff and I was like I'm pretty sure I deleted all the apps and I stayed off of them for like a year and a half, because that was not the experience that I was looking for when I go into a situation, in a dating situation. I want honesty and to be able to communicate that honesty as best I can While still feeling safe, which is the way it should be.

Speaker 1:

I think this is a common sort of theme in dating. Is frustration right? It's frustrating. The dating apps are exactly what they are. They're there to make money. The algorithms are there to push people to the top and keep people at the bottom, and it is what it is. The lawsuit is a joke to me and they're not charity apps, and it is. Everybody gets dealt the cards, they get dealt with, and no one's better or worse. But the reality is I was having a conversation with somebody about rejection the other day, because I think, particularly men, our egos are fragile. I used to. Before I had awareness around it, I used to get frustrated with dating and then I became apathetic and my apathy led to me, basically my ego getting crushed every time a girl rejected me, until I started to realize did you going to get rejected nine out of 10 times before you meet somebody that wants to go for it with you?

Speaker 3:

The only time you're not going to get rejected, hopefully, is by the person that you get married to.

Speaker 1:

Yeah right.

Speaker 3:

Like that's when it's all going to work out.

Speaker 1:

And eventually it could be for a million reasons. And then the other thing is men and women are wired a little differently. We're wired a little differently. I mean men would basically fuck anything right Like for the most part. I'm not saying women don't like sex, but they tend to be a little different there. Men tend to throw shit against the wall a little bit more than women, and women are a little bit more thoughtful in what they're looking for, have a little bit more awareness around what they want for the most part. I mean, there's also women out there too that have zero awareness around their own stuff.

Speaker 1:

I was on a thread the other day where it was all men are liars and cheats and blah, blah, blah. And then the men were responding with oh, women are bitches and blah, blah, blah. And I'm like y'all are like springs up the conversation about how the fringes are ruining. Just like politics and everything else, the fringes of the dating world are ruining it for the rest of us, where the 80% of us whatever 80% of statistics are made up on site too, mind you, but the 80% in the middle that are like somewhat are reasonable human beings that can deal with getting rejected, that are out there looking that have some awareness around. It doesn't mean we don't get frustrated, aren't putting everybody in these individual buckets. Yes, there's a lot of men that cheat. There's women that cheat all the time too.

Speaker 3:

Yes.

Speaker 1:

They just don't get as much attention. Yes, there's. The biggest difference, I think, is that men are predatory and then they're bigger. So that's a situation that men I think and maybe I can do it, maybe it's a point to be made on this podcast from time to time is that, hey, try to get some awareness and put yourself in the shoes of a woman, because you're bigger, you're badder and you're scaring them and not all of you, but like some of you are scaring these women and it's completely unnecessary. And then they go away for the rest of us for like a year because they're scared to go back on the apps and in the dating world. So, fucking stop it. That's like my.

Speaker 1:

Stop being a bitch and get your ego in check and deal with rejection like a man in a normal human being, because it's not. They could reject you for a million reasons and, yes, sometimes it's because you're too short or you're ugly to them or you smell bad. It doesn't fucking matter. That's their right to have their own opinion. So that's my little rant, because I'm sick of having to deal with the aftermath of that and being basically branded before somebody even knows me Right, and I'll call somebody out and be like don't project. I'm not rude about it. I'm like I don't appreciate your projections onto me. I'm not that person. I've never cheated on anybody. Can I be an asshole sometimes? Sure, just like a woman can be upset too sometimes. Yeah, anyway, that's my little thing that's it.

Speaker 1:

That's a alcohol, the alcohol one. And Getting those texts like you hear that all the time and that's apathy, that's ego, it's like get over it.

Speaker 3:

And it's also like being be smart and putting yourselves in situations where, with people that you don't know, you know. There's this, there's this quote out there that says Ladies, what would you do without men in the world to protect you and we? And then the answer to it was like what would we need protection from you know? And it's funny, but at the same time it's like a lot of this, like you said, predatoryal type thing. It comes from knowing that there are the male gender out there that pray on women, and when I go out on a date, I tell my mother where I'm going, I tell my roommate where I'm going, I tell my best friend where I'm going, and then I check in after, because you hear all these horror stories of women getting snatched up or taken away or you know. So just just put yourselves in. And this. This goes for the male gender to like be smart about what you're doing on your first date, because Unsafe things can happen to them too.

Speaker 3:

Yeah so, but we all want to have fun, so one or two like loosen up.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, have a good time. Deal with projection. Yeah, let's all have a good time. So I'm appreciating this conversation. So I've uh, I really I've been like itching to talk about a little bit, about a couple things. But so you, I was asking before we started recording if you like love bombing is like this new thing. I don't know if it's new, it's now got a term, but like I Don't know if I've been love bomb before, but I've certainly been, I've certainly been caught up. But I've heard stories of like some serious love bombing and it's typically a. It's typically I mean, oh, we throw this word around more than we should, but narcissists, it's typically narcissistic foundation the person that's doing it. Have you ever been love bomb?

Speaker 3:

Yes, but I actually see it as more of an insecurity thing, I guess narcissists have insecurities, typically deep insecurities, so. But I have One time. It was by a boyfriend. I had only been seeing him for like four months and all of a sudden, like he wanted to move in, like brought his TV over to my house and like was it bigger than yours, or something?

Speaker 3:

Yeah, it was. But like you know, having all these expectations and if I didn't answer a text message in a certain amount of time, like he would freak out and Went out to like a party with him, my roommate and a bunch of friends and some people that I didn't know, and he was just like a wet blanket the whole time and Was like I don't even know why we're here. I don't want to be here, like let's go, let's get out of here. I just want to spend time with you and I'm like, yeah, we're actually, I'm here to enjoy the people that are here. So if you don't want to be here, call an Uber and go home.

Speaker 3:

So that didn't end up lasting much longer, yeah, but and then the other time was the person who was had really big issues with alcohol. He he would call me in the middle of the night as he was wasted, just leaving me voicemails. One voicemail was a minute long and 30 second into it. 30 seconds into it, he goes hi, I have it on my phone. I can. I still have it on my phone, do you want to?

Speaker 1:

play it for us.

Speaker 3:

I don't know, I don't know if I should, you should, no, it's like a minute long of silence and then him just saying hi in the middle of it.

Speaker 1:

And that was it. I'll leave that up to you, but that would be great content.

Speaker 3:

Oh my gosh. Well, and I just like I don't want to exploit someone who is really having internal battle with themselves. Obviously the alcohol is something trying to make himself feel better from whatever it is that he was battling. But I mean, I was proposed to. I was told that he loved me a week into it and I was like OK, this is a lot. We're going to need to take it down a notch. And then after like two weeks I was like OK, we're done.

Speaker 1:

So was that the first time this has happened to you at this level? Because I guess where I'm going with this question is if you saw it again, would you run away?

Speaker 3:

I would run, yeah, yes.

Speaker 1:

I've had it before with women too, falling. I go back and forth like in my life. I think I find a settle on being like. I guess there's a void in it. There's an anxious and there's stable.

Speaker 3:

Attachments there's a book called Attachments, attachments, attachments. Is it attached? It's attached, ok.

Speaker 1:

By a bomb, something bomb. I follow her. I read both the books. There's two of them.

Speaker 3:

Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And then there's the Do the Work podcast.

Speaker 3:

I can't remember names, but I need to get it. My friend told me about that book. I need to get it.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's worth a read. It's actually worth a read. If there's a few books that I can recommend, that's that for both genders, models by Mark Manson. For men, for sure, it's the only dating book out there that gives like a normal perspective to dating, helps you understand rejection. Basically tells men to be themselves, be vulnerable. It's a book about how to attract high quality, reasonable women without pickup lines and all this stuff, and it has several chapters on just fucking suck it up with rejection. There's a million reasons why you're being rejected.

Speaker 3:

And women get rejected too, guys.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, no.

Speaker 3:

And it's usually after you sleep with us.

Speaker 1:

OK, I'm done now. There's a whole chemical reason for that too.

Speaker 1:

And that's another thing for men and women to understand is, once you orgasm particularly for men and that's something happens and we lose a little bit of interest, which is why I get uncomfortable with one-night stands now, because it's just like there's so much hype and you're so horny and blah, blah, blah and you're like man, I want to, and then you're done and you're like this is weird. Now I don't really like you that much. How am I supposed to like you that much? I don't know you that much. Yeah.

Speaker 1:

And it would be different, I guess, if you had the conversation on that date about yeah, let's go back and do it and blah, blah, blah and there's not this thing around it. But it's weird. I mean at least getting a little bit understanding who that person is. But yeah, there's a whole, it's oxytocin, I think is what gets released, and for men it's like 10 times more gets released or something. But yeah, it's like a whole thing. So I'm not quite sure where I was going with that, but yeah.

Speaker 1:

I love bombing and I've been, I've been rejected, I've been ghosted, I've rejected, I've done the rejecting and I've done I've ghosted before. I'm not perfect. That's a whole another topic of when is it appropriate to ghost and when is it not, because sometimes I feel like you say the things or.

Speaker 3:

I'm fishing for my phone right now, so I'm going to share with you a text I got from a guy.

Speaker 1:

Perfect.

Speaker 3:

And it is actually pretty awesome, so he sent me.

Speaker 1:

Rejecting your Rejecting it was a rejection.

Speaker 3:

Hey, I had a really fun day, great conversation, and I really appreciate the opportunity to get to know you. I think you're great, but I want to be honest that I didn't feel the spark between us. I really do hope you find what you're looking for and I wish you the very best.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, it's perfect. It's a good template.

Speaker 3:

Yes, yes, I was like this is genius, like how did he come up with this? And so, you know, sometimes that's all it is. But like we have to understand that rejection is not the reject, the rejection of our full selves. Like there are going to be great qualities in every single person, but not every person is going to have that chemical spark with another person. If we did, we would all be married to each other in thousands of different ways, like polyamory to the max, you know. And you know they always say, oh, you have that one soulmate or that one person you know in the world. That's special.

Speaker 3:

So why are you putting all this pressure on the first date to say yes or no? This is what's going to happen. Like dating takes time, getting to know someone takes time and if you know, I do think that you can feel the spark on the first date and I obviously think that you can't feel the spark on the first date. And it's being able to trust yourself and trust the other person to know when, to kind of feel that out. And if it's like, oh, I'm forgetting to text this guy all the time, oops, like it's probably not there and you should probably just say hey, sorry, I'm just not feeling the spark. I hope you're. I wish you the best you know.

Speaker 1:

I mean that's fair. I went on a date with a girl several months ago and it went really well, like we had a good time. She even read a poem to me that she had written and then I kind of got. I didn't get ghosted, but I got like very short text and then I was like, well, I was going to kind of give up on this. And now she's reemerged on my socials and I'm not quite sure what to make of it. I hope she doesn't listen to the podcast. I probably know what it is now. Like somebody told me that she's probably knocking on my door, but I also think maybe she just she's pretty laid back. So I think maybe she's just she's just interested in what I'm doing and blah, blah, blah. But I've been a little hesitant to ask. But I'm also like so we talked about this a little bit Like I've been a little bit avoidant the last few months in my dating I've been dating as more like a hobby and I want to think that I'm like available I do.

Speaker 1:

You know, I'm trying not to overanalyze it, but like I'm also like I'm trying to launch two. I got this podcast trying to get off the ground, trying to launch another podcast launching another company. I'm a little avoidant, just because I don't. I'm really still a little like working through, like I don't want to be in a bad relationship and my sort of subconscious is like, well, the easiest way to be in a bad relationship not to be in a bad relationship is to not get one at all.

Speaker 1:

And I felt like I was a little love bomb to like the little relationship I had between this and my divorce, that I it wasn't her fault, it wasn't like intentional and she's not a narcissist by any means but we fell really hard for each other. And then it just like it kind of just fell off. It just fell off a cliff, not dramatically, there wasn't like we just like a really strong honeymoon period and then phew, and it was a great thing at the time. But it also like it brought me, it raised the bar so high for that feeling that I know I can't now I'm not like very logical about where I'm at with these. And then I'm on the first date. I'm like, well, she snapped her gum or like blah, blah, like I have these, I'm just making shit up at this point but I'm having no girls gonna go on a date with me again. No, no.

Speaker 1:

How do you feel? And we don't have to go too much into it, but, like I told you a little bit of like how I feel about situationships and that I feel like situationships, with respect and open communication, can be like very fun and very open, very like exciting things, particularly for people our age and older. Like I think there's no kids, there's no, there's just like we're living our lives, we've got some financial security, like maybe we're ready for a relationship, but maybe we want it to start with and my sort of thing around. It is like one of the things I'd love to be in a relationship, but one of the things I'm craving the most in my, in my single hood right now is I love my independence, but like I'm in an intimacy desert, like I haven't had intimacy, like real intimacy and like well over a year and it sucks and it's a big void and I think what's the difference? I guess what's the difference? Do you think there's a difference between friends and benefits and situationships? Or and I'm not gonna put you on the spot to ask if you're yeah, you were into situationships, but like I know you're aware of what they are Like do you think there's a difference? And do you think there's like, but it's reasonable because it has a stigma of like oh, you're just looking for a fuck buddy, you know. But I've also been in friends with benefits situationship things where there was a lot of respect, there was love and admiration. It's just we just knew that we had. Non-negotiable is that we're never gonna allow us to be in a relationship and the whole like coming and going and not having these relationship type expectations allow these situationships to be kind of a lot of fun.

Speaker 3:

So my take on situationships and friends with benefits I don't. I think a situationship takes a lot more communication than a friends with benefits. Basically, with a situationship, you know you guys are getting together, being intimate, but you're also friends and there's a level of trust, there's a level of exploration, there's a level of kind of getting to know the other person and how they are, so that you know if you're texting and you don't hear from them for a while, like you're not freaking out. You know you have to have that trust in that communication upfront, but also that communication of like, hey, this is what we're doing right now, but if anything changes, like if you start to get feelings or if you start to feel like this is not a good thing, like you need to tell me.

Speaker 3:

So I've definitely been in a situationship before and he and I had that open communication like that and it worked really well. I honestly it ended because he moved to California, so but I knew for a fact that a relationship with him, a marriage with him, a life with him would not be fulfilling for me. But everything we did in that moment of time was great. So, and you know he would like come over, I'd cook dinner and then I'd be like, hey, you want dessert, and it just, you know it worked. We had similar personalities, similar humor, and then I have been in a situation where it was just like hey, I'm in Denver, what are you up to tonight, you know, and that was the expectation there. So I have heard of situationships turning into relationships.

Speaker 1:

And I'm sure they do.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I've heard of friends with benefits turning into relationships. It really is, I think, just luck of the draw.

Speaker 1:

Every girl I've had friends with benefits with went on to marry the person that they were dating while we were still friends of benefits. Yeah, I have had situationships. I'm just like in my mind I feel like mentally, situationships would be easier for me to handle mentally and I don't. I think it gets a lot. I get to get this bad rap that you're not committing and blah, blah, blah. Like at what point do you commit?

Speaker 1:

My thing is like why not take the whole marriage relationship thing off the table until you figure it out and let's put hanging out. Let's watch Netflix together, let's make dinner together. I mean, the whole other side of my podcast is the owning alone podcast and, yes, sometimes it's lonely and it would be like nice to have a companion to and see if it goes somewhere. It goes somewhere, but doesn't it doesn't? I just think that, like, we're all dating to find this perfect person in years and years go by and you look back and you're like I had no intimacy for like the last three years and I'm still fucking for this person where maybe you could have had a friend or a situation ship, and that's just me. Like I think it doesn't work for everybody, but I just wonder if there should be more dialogue around what what relationships look like, particularly for middle-aged people, because yeah.

Speaker 1:

We're all like Kind of set in our ways and we're all like, I think a lot of us, a lot of people I get bring on to my podcast and that our age, are pretty happy with their lives, not itching to move in with somebody, not itching to, you know, completely wrap their life around somebody else. Now, you know how it is. You've been in love, I'm sure, and when it happens, it typically happens and you're like, okay, well, I don't want to like, let's go with this.

Speaker 1:

So, I think situations, ships could certainly Get there. Yeah, it's just, it's something I probably continue to bring up on the lounge, I think it's um, it's just a new term now and people are on both sides of it and yeah. I just find dating is just such a. It's such that there's laundry lists and red flag, green flags and, like you know, everybody's and I'm guilty of it too like Just not giving people a chance, yeah, so yeah, I'm advocating for situation chips and friends with benefits. I've got no shame.

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I haven't had one of those in a while.

Speaker 3:

I mean, when I got into my 30s, that was kind of like something that I wasn't interested in anymore. I was really just interested in self-development and Like making sure that I loved being with myself alone. You know, enjoying my home I had just bought bought a house enjoying my dog and you know, just doing the simple pleasure, things that Really like if you're, if you're gonna be entering into a relationship or a situation ship or anything like that, you need to be happy with yourself first, no matter what oh, absolutely.

Speaker 3:

And you need to be happy with being alone in what you do on your own time and not being so dependent on someone else for your happiness. So that was kind of like my mental state in my early 30s. And then, as I, you know, started dating and then I met someone when I was 34 and then it, you know, dated them for a year and a half. I Was like, you know, I'm not necessarily in a rush, but if I do want to have kids someday I don't be having kids in my 40s, you know and so I feel like women while Some women would agree, you know, situations ships and friends with benefits would be beneficial we're also trying to be a little bit more proactive, because if we really do want to have children with a partner and not, you know, be tree dish, that we have to be intentional about how we're dating and if the person on the other side is not reciprocating that, that gets a little bit frustrating.

Speaker 1:

That's a good point and I think we men miss that. Not, not, not because we're dicks, we're just, we don't you don't have to think about it really.

Speaker 3:

I mean, freakin, didn't Robert De Niro just have a kid?

Speaker 1:

Yeah, I just saw.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I don't know how she is. But yeah, like he just became a new father and he's like in his 70s 80s.

Speaker 1:

His kids range from 52 to whatever eight months or whatever. Yeah, so.

Speaker 3:

You guys have no limit as long as we don't have a little you're fine.

Speaker 1:

We don't have a limit. But I also I've said this openly too like it is different, but I've, I've decided I don't want to have children, and that was pretty recent. Just because I don't, I, I just think I feel there's things I want to do. I'm so young and and I don't think I want to do the top bit I don't want to raise, I don't want to take the risk of having an unhealthy baby. I don't want to take, I don't want to raise a baby in my, in my older years, like I got, I got real aspirations to be financially secure in 10 years and yeah and be in my 50s on a sailboat and live in my best life.

Speaker 1:

That has precluded me from dating a lot of different women. I'm still a little open to dating women with With children, and I go there and to play it out a little bit and see, because they don't want to take everything off the table. But, yeah, I mean it's, it's, it's it's interesting and it is different for women and I think we forget that sometimes and I think it's that's a discussion too, where I think, like, if you really want to have kids, it's worth. It's worth either freezing your eggs when you're younger or or Having some awareness around that when you're dating, because it's it's, you know it's you get up into your 30s and it's, it's tough. Yeah, it's tough for, for anybody, any woman.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, I mean, I know someone whose sister was just like well, I'm not married, I don't even have a partner, but I want, I want a child. So she went and got, you know, artificially inseminated and Now has a baby and is extremely happy. You know, there are women out there that are just taking matters into their own hands and which I appreciate.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, absolutely, but I still. I also think that my generation still has that Mentality, mindset of like the Cinderella complex of Prince charming come, you know, rescue me, let's have babies together, and you know still that we need to have children, when it's probably some of these women out there Didn't need to have children and like are not fulfilled as mothers and I really think our society needs to be a lot more open to that.

Speaker 1:

We had this conversation with Alyssa on episode 9 Was talking about, because she's she's our age and single and she's an attorney, and she said that out of all the things you know that are that are isolating for a woman, that's one of the biggest ones. She feels like that she that it's isolating and and I feel it too. I mean, all my friends are. A lot of my friends are married and have children and they're pretty unavailable and and they're living completely different lives, which is kind of part of the reason I started this podcast was to try to find More people like myself and have dialogue with them so that we could normalize this other half of the population. That's not I'm not like precluding them from being. I Actually have a lot of listeners that are married and have children and stuff. I think they enjoy the show because it's I mean, they're just, they're getting a perspective that they haven't a long time and and I and I appreciate that and I'm doing it because I'm trying to, I'm trying to normalize and work through it myself of what does my life look like and be more comfortable with, with all the things I mean, dating in my 40s is Isn't interesting. It's interesting, it's different than when I was in my 30s. It's different than when I was in my 20s.

Speaker 1:

I'm a lot, lot, lot more comfortable on my own skin. I'm a lot more confident and not confident because of anything else except for I just give less fucks. Like you can reject me all day and you're not gonna hurt my feelings. Like will I be disappointed sometimes? Yeah, like, sometimes I'm like man, I would have been cool if that would have worked out. But yeah, so we're kind of getting to the end here. I guess I always end all my podcasts Asking my guests to give some advice to the younger generation and since this is a dating podcast, you have any. I always try to tell them like, put it in perspective of you were talking to your 20 something year old self. Yeah, that.

Speaker 3:

Actually that's a really fun question. So it brings me back to a conversation I was having A couple weeks ago with a friend of mine who the guy she was seeing after two months was just like, hey, I'm gonna need space, I've got a lot going on with work and my kids and I Just I don't have the mental capacity, you know. And she ended up sitting down and actually having a full-on conversation with him and I said how do you feel like? You know, do you feel you know rejected or anything like that? And she's like honestly, I think I was more upset because I had this idea of what we could have been, and it was just the idea of him being in my life, she's like.

Speaker 3:

Otherwise, I look back and I see a lot of red flags and I was like, oh my god, like. And that just sparked an epiphany in my brain of like a lot of my dating in the past, especially the, the men that I had been with for a longer period of time, not this last guy, but you know, in high school and in my early 20s I loved the idea of who I thought this person was and it turned out that we're not that person at all that makes a lot of sense.

Speaker 1:

I've been subject, I've been guilty of that too, like putting somebody up on a pestle or or glorifying them, and then you know you get these like these goggles where you just miss all the the red flags and all your and you're making up green flags. So I Appreciate you. I know that you have some aspirations to be a dating coach, relationship coach.

Speaker 3:

Yeah, yeah, I I want to be a relationship coach. I feel like I am really good at giving people advice on no, just allowing them to kind of sit back and think a little bit more clearly about the situation that they're in, and I've helped a lot of friends and acquaintances in the past with that, and so I'm looking into launching as a relationship coach fairly soon.

Speaker 1:

Awesome. Well, when you get that all set up and we'll We'll make sure we put it on the socials and we'll have you back on and maybe we can bring on a third guest and we can, we can dissect their relationship and put them on the spot. That'd be fun.

Speaker 3:

Oh my gosh, I'm gonna need to need some practice first.

Speaker 1:

But no, I really appreciate you coming on. This was super fun. I think there's a lot of good content in here. I appreciate my listeners. You guys know that I can't do this without you, so please, please, please, be in contact. I want to hear your stories. I want to ask, I want to answer your question Send me in your red flags so we can dissect them and tell you whether they're a red flag or not. You can follow me on Instagram, at owning alone I'm on tiktok to at Joel Popper, and you can always email me at Joel at owning alone. Podcast calm. I also have a bi monthly Happy hour called the podcast happy hour, here in the Denver Metro, if you're around, which you can find on meetup. So please sign up for that and you can meet me in person. And and yeah, so I want to hear from you and appreciate you and appreciate you, kayla, and that's it. This is watches out. Oh.

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Joel Poppert

Host